2020-05-08.log

+ rottensox (~rottensox@unaffiliated/rottensox)00:16
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.34.251)02:25
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+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.34.251)03:40
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+ koz_ (~koz@121.99.240.58)04:39
+ kaleun (~kaleun@2600:1700:6828:40::4e5)05:38
- kaleun (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~kaleun@2600:1700:6828:40::4e5)09:28
- Jookia (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia)10:01
+ Jookia (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia)10:02
- futarisIRCcloud (QUIT: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) (uid222239@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zwdtmnhwtuvbyasg)10:55
Asmadeushttps://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform/updates/the-campaign-is-live cheers :)10:55
mntmnYep! was just gonna post it here :D thanks Asmadeus10:56
sknebelcongrats on the launch!11:01
mntmnthanks sknebel!11:03
kremlinfff11:05
kremlinif i hadn't just spent a bunch of money on a machine i would buy a mnt laptop11:05
zakxyou still have 41 days to find some new money11:09
Jookiaoh my god the leather sleeve is vegan :D11:14
AsmadeusHow "difficult" would the assembly be? I'd be in for the fun of it (IKEA effect :D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect ), but worried the polishing might not be as good11:14
AsmadeusIf it's just plugging some flat cables and screws it shouldn't change much but you never know11:14
AsmadeusAlso just because I don't see it written, for the sake of it, what's the SSD brand going to be? might not be decided yet I guess.. :p11:20
indefini[m]mntmn: backed!11:23
mntmnAsmadeus: assembling is beginner-friendly11:23
mntmnindefini[m]: thank you!!!11:24
indefini[m]:)11:24
mntmnAsmadeus: there are multiple SSD vendor candidates, micron, samsung, transcend. we'll announce as soon as that's finally decided11:24
- darth-cheney (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~darth-che@2604:2000:8095:3f00:5c15:c396:5ac5:e933)11:27
Jookiamntmn: typo 'and or own open source firmware.'11:27
mntmnJookia: thanks!11:28
Jookiait's bold going with passive cooling entirely11:28
Jookiabut i'm glad to see compared to the novena's tiny heatsink and the librem's lack of one you've got a giant one11:29
mntmnyes, it's really chonky, and it works11:30
Jookiait's about the size of the librem from what i can see. :P11:31
Jookiai really hope that the reform grows a community around it a little better than the novena did. :D11:32
mntmnJookia: maybe there will be some overlap with the novena community... maybe the novena board could fit in the reform case? never checked11:33
- B[] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz)11:35
+ B[] (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz)11:40
mietekmntmn: congrats on the launch.11:41
AsmadeusOne (maybe) last question, I have no idea where I will want this shipped at the end of the year.. Will you be confirming shipping addresses before sending?11:41
mietekAre the trackball buttons translucent now?11:42
mietekThis seems different from the last update.11:42
mntmnyes, they are11:44
mntmnAsmadeus: yes, addresses will be confirmed11:45
AsmadeusCheers11:45
mietekmntmn: perhaps it would be good to mention this in the update.11:46
mietekDoes this mean the trackball PCB includes LEDs now?11:48
mntmnyes11:49
mntmn:)11:49
Jookiamntmn: haha, that sounds like a challenge... but now that i think about it, i wonder if it would fit in a novena :D i'm very pessimistic about tech but this is basically my dream/perfect laptop. aside from the 4GB ram I think, but that's what a modular design is for. but unfortunately i'm going to pass on this simply because i promised myself i wouldn't buy more computers and instead try and ride my stuff11:49
Jookiauntil it dies, because that's the point of long-lasting tech11:49
mntmn5 individually addressable ones, a fact which is not yet exploted11:49
mntmnJookia: perfectly fine!11:50
mntmnJookia: that's what sustainability is about ;)11:50
srkcongrats! :)11:53
Jookiai do think this laptop is coming out with enough power, form factor and timing for a general audience which is great to see11:53
Jookiai hope you're doomed for success and end up having to support it forever >:D11:54
srkJookia: maybe fitting novena into reform case? :D11:54
Jookiasrk: yeah that's what mntmn suggested11:54
srkaah, didn't read the whole backlog, cool11:54
Jookiasrk: you were talking about redoing the senoko on the novena. maybe you could steal the reform's battery controller11:54
srkthrow links at me11:55
Jookiathe main page https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform goes in to surprising detail about the laptop, though you'd have to check the schematics/PCB to see what's up11:55
srkI see it's NXP LPC11U24 Cortex-M0 MCU, /me prefers STM32 /o\11:55
srkbut yeah, will take a look at the schematics, mcu is only one piece of it and other components are quite important as well11:56
srkcan it do type-c usb-pd? :)11:57
Jookiai don't think so. that'd be cool though :D11:58
srklink to reform motherboard sources is broken btw - https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform/src/branch/reform2-nitrogen8m/reform2-motherboard/reform2-motherboard11:58
Asmadeussrk: I asked about usb-pd and no, but I'll probably tinker something with this https://www.tindie.com/products/pier42/usb-c-pd-sink/11:59
Asmadeus(none left so something equivalent probably, should have gotten one while it was warm ;p)12:00
Jookiathe thing that really inspires me is that the reform is public source code/design and open hardware. so no matter what happens, it's contributing to the future and providing building blocks12:01
srkAsmadeus: I was looking at my senoko and its schematics the other day and realized I can roll my own with more recent components, mcu and usb-pd12:01
Jookiasenoko 2: electric boogaloo12:01
srkstill not sure where's the power module schematics / boards12:04
- erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.34.251)12:04
Jookiai think the battery controller is on the mainboard and it plugs in12:05
Asmadeushttps://mntre.com/reform/handbook/motherboard/attiny.html12:05
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.34.251)12:06
Asmadeusmntmn: https://mntre.com/reform/handbook/motherboard/index.html is full of dead links again~12:06
mntmnAsmadeus: sorry, this is for the reform1, will fix that page asap12:15
AsmadeusAh. Where's the reform2 equivalent again?12:16
+ josch (~josch@fulda099.startdedicated.de)12:18
pinoaffeAsmadeus: you can get really cheap usb-c pd sinks on aliexpress, about 2 bucks a pop12:21
srkah, found reform2-power.sch12:23
srkpinoaffe: no fun in that12:24
pinoaffesrk: should be about as much fun as there is in the tindie product Asmadeus linked :)12:24
srkyeah, same issue :)12:25
pinoaffebut yeah, I've also been planning on designing my own usb-pd stuff, just haven't gotten around to it12:25
srk++ :)12:26
srkepic that I can just clone and open schematics in kicad <312:27
srkbig improvement compared to novena and altium :D12:27
pinoaffeI've got a couple of pretty decent 18650s I got from an ebike battery, want to turn it into a big usb-c-pd powerbank12:30
- B[] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz)12:36
mntmnAsmadeus: Reform 2 handbook is not yet online!12:52
mntmnAsmadeus: sources (not for handbook) are here https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform12:52
AsmadeusWorks too, thanks12:53
joschDoes there exist a photo or rendering of the NEO2 keyboard layout? I just stumbled across the option in the dropdown menu in the crowdsupply campaign and didn't see it advertised anywhere else.12:54
indefini[m]josch: yeah I just did a google image search to see what it looks like13:29
indefini[m]mntmn: another small question about the keyboard, do you press the spacebar keys with your thumbs?13:30
joschindefini[m]: But that google image search will not tell me what layout was chosen for the reform.13:31
rvensemntmn: congratulations on the launch! will the machines be shipped from germany or from crowdsupply?13:31
+ jfred[m] (jonterracr@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wxrdkumqmblmcsqm)13:32
indefini[m]I think maybe the layout is the same? and just the key placement changes?13:32
sknebelrvense: depends on where you are. EU is shipped from Germany, US (and maybe elsewhere?) from Crowdsupply13:33
indefini[m]I don't get why the alt keys are between the space keys but I guess you can change that easily13:35
joschindefini[m]: I have been using neo2 for over a decade and the problem is, that there are not enough keys on the homerow for neo2 in the photo/rendering of the qwerty layout as seen on the crowdsupply website. So the qwerty layout cannot be used for neo2. That's why I was asking.13:35
+ darth-cheney (~darth-che@cpe-68-173-73-196.nyc.res.rr.com)13:37
darth-cheneyhey dudes, quick question about the reform campaign13:37
darth-cheneywhat is the pictured keyboard layout?13:37
indefini[m]josch: ok I see. it would be nice to have a picture for each layout13:38
indefini[m]darth-cheney: looks like a qwerty to me13:41
mntmndarth-cheney: pictured is qwerty, somewhere in between ANSI and ISO13:42
mntmnindefini[m]: yes, thumbing the spacebars13:42
mntmnjosch: the Neo2 layout is not yet finalized, i think we'll feature that in an update article on the layouts13:42
indefini[m]ok13:43
joschmntmn: Awesome, thank you!13:43
mntmnnp!13:45
darth-cheneyword. I'm assuming it's no thang to just pop those keys on the bottom row and move them around a bit13:46
indefini[m]mntmn: is it easier to thumb the space keys in this configuration rather than alt space space alt (the space keys in the middle)?13:47
mntmnindefini[m]: yes, originally it was alt space space alt and it was not optimal, so changed it13:50
mntmni hope to see a lot of modding around the keyboard.13:50
indefini[m]ok13:50
mntmnAsmadeus: i have replaced the old reform website now with a new overview + link to old PDF of handbook https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-05-08-the-much-more-personal-computer.html13:58
Asmadeusmntmn: cheers, looks clear to me but it probably came from my browser history actually :D13:59
mntmnAsmadeus: what do you mean, from your browser history?14:01
mntmnthe old handbook?14:01
Asmadeusyeah the old link I had14:01
Asmadeusfirefox wonderbar is scary14:01
+ la_mettrie (~rimrunner@2a01:4f9:c010:3051::1)14:02
- darth-cheney (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~darth-che@cpe-68-173-73-196.nyc.res.rr.com)14:08
+ adjtm (~adjtm@80.red-79-150-248.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)14:16
- rvense (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~rvense@93-163-17-86-static.dk.customer.tdc.net)14:17
+ rvense (~rvense@93-163-17-86-static.dk.customer.tdc.net)14:17
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+ JDGJr (~JDGJr@209.131.238.80)14:21
erlehmannjosch indefini[m] mntmn for reference, the home row on neo2 on my thinkpad is: shift u i a e o s n r t d y mod3 enter14:33
erlehmanneh14:33
erlehmannjosch indefini[m] mntmn i correct myself, it is: mod3 u i a e o s n r t d y mod3 enter14:34
erlehmannjosch i think it fits though?14:35
joscherlehmann: yes, if you shift everything to the left by one key and that destroys symmetry14:37
joschi'm looking at this image https://www.crowdsupply.com/img/c873/20200414-reform2d3-keyboard2_jpg_project-body.jpg there are only two keys between L and Enter while on my German Thinkpad keyboard there are three keys between L and Enter (d, y, and mod3)14:38
+ erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)14:40
- erlehmann (QUIT: Disconnected by services) (~erlehmann@46.114.34.251)14:40
* erlehmann_ -> erlehmann14:40
la_mettriebetween hyper and ctrl is the META key?14:41
erlehmannjosch i see the problem. either you shift it and make it awkward or you are missing a key.14:42
erlehmannJookia,14:48
erlehmannsorry14:48
erlehmannwrong highlight14:48
erlehmannjosch i think i would choose mod3 mod3 u i a e o s n r t d y enter, what do you think?14:49
joscherlehmann: i don't think that makes sense. When I type a level-3 key with my left hand, I need the right-hand-side mod3 key to press it with my right hand14:50
josch(and vice-versa)14:50
erlehmannjosch would mod3 u i a e o s n r t d y mod3 and the enter key on the lower level work?14:51
erlehmanni mean, i see the issue myself14:51
erlehmannsorry, i should have looked into it earlier, as reform1 had 2 keys less than i expected. so this time it has enough, but is shifted.14:52
joscherlehmann: I don't see an easy solution. I'd have to think about it.14:53
erlehmannjosch it would also be possible to develop a custom neo2 keyboard based on this one14:54
erlehmannjosch, imagine if in the 3rd 4th 5th row of the keyboard the leftmost keys would not have width 1,5 / 1 / 1,5 but 1 / 1,5 / 1, i think it would work14:55
erlehmannjosch, btw according to mntmn the 2 keys on his layout left of the a are ctrl and compose14:56
erlehmannjosch, so everyone will be in for a surprise :D14:56
joscherlehmann: yes, that would be an option14:56
erlehmannjosch, the lowest row would also need to be changed so that there is no problem with the arrow keys14:58
+ adjtm_ (~adjtm@80.red-79-150-248.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)15:30
- adjtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~adjtm@80.red-79-150-248.dynamicip.rima-tde.net)15:32
- rottensox (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~rottensox@unaffiliated/rottensox)15:49
+ rottensox (~rottensox@unaffiliated/rottensox)15:49
mietekmntmn: I think there’s a typo on the main campaign page: "OLED PCP"15:59
mietekmntmn: and "everwhere"16:00
mntmnwat16:03
mntmnok16:03
mietekmntmn: it would be nice to have all PCBs the same color…16:08
mntmnthanks mietek16:08
mntmnmietek: they’ll be16:08
mietekah!16:08
erlehmannnow everyone who wanted PCP will be disappoint16:08
mietekThe photos show black and purple PCBs16:08
mntmnduring early COVID we used a range of different PCB providers16:09
mietekThis may also deserve a note16:09
- erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)17:02
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)17:02
+ dustyweb (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea)17:24
dustywebcongrats on the launch \o/ \o/17:24
- koz_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~koz@121.99.240.58)17:27
+ koz_ (~koz@121.99.240.58)17:27
mntmnthank you dustyweb !!17:40
elwispbravo!17:45
elwisp999 for the diy kit17:45
FSXmntmn: Are you going to continue the campaign when the goal is reached?18:55
mntmnFSX: absolutely yes19:03
- erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)19:04
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)19:05
swivelmntmn: are all parts of the chassis and display frame aluminum?19:09
- erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)19:11
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)19:11
mntmnswivel: yes, except the bottom plate, which is by default acrylic (optional aluminum, but then you can't... look inside)19:13
swivelmntmn: neat, how does one request the aluminum back option?19:20
mntmnswivel: i think we won't offer it during the campaign (too complex) but as an aftermarket thing.19:25
- erlehmann (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)19:25
mntmn(or ask me here again in 1.5 months)19:25
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)19:25
swivelmntmn: ok, sounds good19:28
mntmnswivel: we actually have a bunch of them and if not too many people ask for them...19:31
FSXmntmn: Awesome!19:43
jackhillcongrats on launching, I have ordered one! Of all the things Reform has going for it, today I'm particularly excited about the batter. Thanks!21:08
jackhilldustyweb: I hope to put Guix System on mine.21:08
dustywebjackhill: ooh yay21:09
dustywebso that's at least two fo us then :)21:09
dustywebof21:09
jackhill\o/21:10
mntmnjackhill: thank you <321:20
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+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)21:57
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+ ex-parrot (~ex-parrot@fsf/member/ex-parrot)22:00
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:02
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+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:05
+ blast007 (~blast007@bzflag/developer/Blast)22:07
- erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:10
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:11
dopplerif you order both trackball & trackpad, the case is still the same, right? i.e., you must use one or the other, not both simultaneously22:12
rvenseyeah, i think so. i was wondering if you could replace it with some sort of compartment with a lid...22:15
rvenseif you use an external rodent, or control the cursor from the keyboard22:17
swiveli similarly found it ambiguous on that front, should probably be clarified22:18
swivelbut assume it's you get both and can only use one or the other at a time, since it'd require a completely different combined version for physical packaging22:19
erlehmannmaybe a rotating thing like in a james bond car22:21
dopplerswivel: right, that's what I figured, but I couldn't help but imagine how neat it might be to have both :P22:21
- erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:22
swiveldoppler: im reminded of the homer https://simpsons.fandom.com/wiki/The_Homer22:22
dopplerhahaha yes22:23
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:23
dopplerthis is exactly the kind of jackassery that makes me glad for the world that other people are designing laptops rather than me22:23
dopplerI'd probably have three trackballs on the back of the display and two on the palmrest22:24
doppleretc.22:24
swivelim not really against the homer of laptops, just do it by lining the thing's edges with usb ports so everyone can make their own flavored homer22:24
- erlehmann (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:24
dopplerhah22:25
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:27
blast007swivel: ever heard of the Smart Book?  don't think it ever made it to market, but it was a netbook, tablet, and handheld mobile device, all in one (and the netbook keyboard could also be used as a bluetooth/USB keyboard.. and you could use the tablet display as a second display for your PC..)22:30
swivelblast007: nope22:30
- erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:34
+ erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)22:35
blast007the specs are not real impressive by today's standards, but it was an interesting concept at the time.22:35
- blast007 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~blast007@bzflag/developer/Blast)22:45
ex-parrotmorning doppler22:50
doppleroh hey22:50
dopplernow that the campaign starts half the people I know on IRC show up :P22:50
doppleranyway, nice to see you22:50
ex-parrot_b22:50
ex-parrotI somehow missed that there even was an IRC channel for the project!22:51
ex-parrotI recognise a few names here from the old Kosagi channel too22:52
rvenseex-parrot: o/22:53
ex-parrotmorning :)22:53
+ technomancy (~user@170.ip-158-69-211.net)22:54
ex-parrotI want to revisit my plan to make a new bamboo plywood lid for my novena22:57
+ blast007 (~blast007@bzflag/developer/Blast)22:58
- erlehmann (QUIT: Quit: Just say no, then the virus can not enter your body without your consent.) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.107)23:39
Jookiaex-parrot: mnt is asleep, post novena plans :P23:59

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