#reform | Logs for 2018-11-04

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[16:30:42] -!- reformer [reformer!~reformer@softboy.mntmn.com] has joined #reform
[16:32:34] -!- mode/#reform [+o mntmn] by ChanServ
[16:33:20] -!- mode/#reform [+v reformer] by ChanServ
[16:35:05] mntmn changed topic of #reform to: MNT Reform. logs: http://mntmn.com | Info: https://mntmn.com | News: https://mastodon.social
[16:35:20] mntmn changed topic of #reform to: MNT Reform. Logs: http://mntmn.com | Info: https://mntmn.com | News: https://mastodon.social
[16:39:15] <mntmn> basic logging is now in place ;)
[20:05:18] -!- adjtm [adjtm!~adjtm@71.red-83-37-49.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #reform
[20:06:04] <adjtm> mntmn, are you running a wayland compositor?
[20:06:10] <adjtm> have you tried sway?
[20:06:58] <mntmn> hey adjtm
[20:07:22] <mntmn> yes i have, and also fixed a bug in uh wlroots ;)
[20:07:53] <bkeys> mntmn: What version of OpenGL do you get?
[20:08:10] <bkeys> I read the GC3000 gets OpenGL3.0
[20:08:19] <mntmn> currently 2.1
[20:08:28] <mntmn> i guess etnaviv is working on getting to 3.0
[20:08:36] <mntmn> and ES 2.0
[20:08:45] <bkeys> Do you get ES 2.0 right now?
[20:08:56] <mntmn> concerning wayland: i’ve switched back to xorg
[20:08:59] <mntmn> bkeys yes
[20:09:08] <mntmn> because modesetting works now
[20:09:23] <bkeys> Is there any updates on the aluminum parts?
[20:09:29] <mntmn> so xorg+modesetting+i3 is faster than sway
[20:09:30] <bkeys> As in do you think they will be in the end product?
[20:09:40] <mntmn> the aluminum parts are here
[20:09:51] <mntmn> they’re nice :)
[20:10:05] <bkeys> Yeah by what I saw in the pictures they look nice
[20:10:20] <mntmn> yes they may end up there... the whole manufacturing process will be still updated
[20:10:31] <bkeys> What is your guess of how much a reform is going to cost?
[20:10:38] <mntmn> i don’t know yet
[20:10:59] <mntmn> the plan was to land at 600 eur
[20:11:02] <adjtm> mntmn, I don't like x11, I would like to switch to a wayland compositor
[20:11:21] <mntmn> but it might be more, or there might be other more DIY options, ikea-style
[20:11:26] <bkeys> With all of the MN, is there a chance this is based in Minnesota?
[20:11:38] <mntmn> adjtm, i was using weston a lot and customized it
[20:11:52] <mntmn> bkeys, no, it is based in berlin, germany
[20:12:13] <mntmn> mnt comes from mntmn which comes from minuteman
[20:12:21] <bkeys> That makes sense
[20:13:07] <mntmn> adjtm, weston works well. gnome shell is slow. plasma i haven’t tried yet
[20:13:27] <mntmn> sway is very promising but it needs to be optimized or debugged for this platform
[20:13:38] <mntmn> i like sway a lot
[20:13:41] <bkeys> I think somewhere I saw it mention that you could at one point update to a IMX8 board (when it's created in the first place), are there going to be updates to the laptop?
[20:13:52] <mntmn> yes that’s one of the plans
[20:14:44] <adjtm> mntmn, gnome is slow both on wayland and x11 :(, even on amd apu with proper gpu drivers
[20:15:00] <adjtm> I don't know why, it's crazy!
[20:15:23] <mntmn> i have the i.MX8 development kit and it is very promising but the driver situation is not there yet
[20:15:37] <mntmn> i’m also considering layerscape chips in the future
[20:15:49] <mntmn> and risc-v in the far future ;)
[20:15:55] <adjtm> I agree, i.mx8 is far for ideal from a software point of view
[20:16:16] <mntmn> i.MX6 is a bit dated now but it is really rock solid
[20:16:22] <mntmn> and a lot of slowness comes from bloated software
[20:16:44] <mntmn> so if you combine the right tools it can be a very fun experience
[20:17:02] <adjtm> it's sad, but i.mx6 is still the best option for a fully open arm desktop
[20:17:05] <mntmn> just don’t expect to have fun with gnome 3 desktop etc ;)
[20:17:22] <mntmn> and the 1.2 ghz imx6 is still pretty new
[20:17:26] <jfred[m]> Yeah - I use a Thinkpad X200, which isn't exactly a speed demon, but with i3 it's not bad
[20:17:37] <adjtm> i.mx6 quad plus is nice
[20:18:07] <mntmn> yeah
[20:18:10] <mntmn> i’m using thay
[20:18:11] <mntmn> that
[20:18:47] <adjtm> "pretty new" is a bit of an exaggeration, it's more a small improvement of an old platform
[20:19:32] <adjtm> but yes, thanks to the integrated circuit improvement slowdown it's already a decent mobile platform
[20:20:09] <bkeys> mntmn: What distros have you tested on the reform?
[20:20:16] <adjtm> mntmn, I hope that we will be able to jump directly from i.mx6 to riscv
[20:20:38] <bkeys> riscv would be baller
[20:22:19] <adjtm> mntmn, which kernel are you using? most novena users are on old kernels (best effort was a 4.9 kernel for gentoo)
[20:22:59] <mntmn> bkeys, debian only so far
[20:23:14] <mntmn> i’m using the mainline kernel from linux git master :)
[20:23:48] <bkeys> What boot firmware are you using?
[20:23:57] <bkeys> Can you run a normal ARM installer or do you have to flash an image?
[20:23:59] <adjtm> mainline u-boot?
[20:24:17] <mntmn> you mean bootloader? mainline uboot with my board files added
[20:24:51] <mntmn> imx6 has a fixed rom boot code
[20:24:51] <adjtm> I'm shocked that reform as all hardware mainline...
[20:24:57] -!- nemunaire [nemunaire!~nemunaire@2a01cb04070b37000000000000000001.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #reform
[20:25:04] <adjtm> s/as/has
[20:25:15] <mntmn> adjtm: yeah except for the DTS but i will upstream it
[20:25:46] <adjtm> non-mainline dts is much less painful than non-mainline drivers
[20:25:59] <mntmn> yeah
[20:26:05] <mntmn> all drivers are mainline
[20:27:21] <bkeys> Is there a video of a reform booting up?
[20:27:36] <adjtm> you Germans and Austrians are awesome on the open source world!
[20:28:06] <mntmn> bkeys i’ll make a few videos soon
[20:28:30] <mntmn> adjtm hehe i guess a lot of credit goes to pengutronix people for etnaviv development yeah
[20:28:31] <bkeys> Do you plan on testing with other distros before release?
[20:28:50] <mntmn> bkeys yeah
[20:29:00] <mntmn> before the main release
[20:29:11] <mntmn> not before the beta release which is in a few days hopefully ;)
[20:29:23] <bkeys> What does the beta release entail?
[20:29:28] <mntmn> like, 10 beta devices were presold and we’re building them atm
[20:30:44] <mntmn> and the next version will be via crowdsupply
[20:34:11] <mntmn> bkeys, so reform beta is done (i’m running 1 personal device), and 10 of these will be completed and shipped in the coming 2 weeks. then we’ll kick of the campaign
[20:34:27] <mntmn> and i’ll incorporate feedback from the beta customers in that version.
[20:34:34] <adjtm> mntmn, battery life?
[20:34:43] <bkeys> That's good news, by what you've said (it might have been helpful to have a FAQ, I'm saving a log of my questions for personal reference) I'll probably get one
[20:34:51] <mntmn> depends on the usage, up to 5h atm
[20:35:06] <bkeys> I'm not sure if I get paid 2 weeks from now or 3
[20:35:08] <mntmn> bkeys yes a FAQ will come
[20:35:21] <mntmn> bkeys, the campaign will run for a few months.
[20:35:37] <bkeys> That's good, will you ship them in batch or ship them as people purchase them?
[20:36:02] <mntmn> a crowdfunding campaign starts building and shipping only after the campaign is funded.
[20:36:28] <bkeys> How confident are you that it's going to get funded?
[20:37:07] <zakx> given the usual success of crowdsupply project I assume it is safe to bet that it'll be funded in no time %)
[20:37:10] <mntmn> not sure how to answer that question
[20:37:28] <bkeys> Well, what would be the minimum goal I suppose would be a better question to ask
[20:37:35] <bkeys> zakx: I hope so
[20:37:35] -!- anarsoul [anarsoul!~anarsoul@216-71-193-140.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #reform
[20:37:44] <mntmn> minimum 100 i think
[20:37:52] <zakx> devices?
[20:37:55] <mntmn> yeah
[20:38:02] <mntmn> 1000 would be nice
[20:38:13] <zakx> so you'd set a ~60k€ goal?
[20:38:36] <mntmn> probably more like 100k
[20:38:44] <mntmn> but this is all very not clear yet.
[20:39:18] <bkeys> Do you have a range of what you think a reform would cost?
[20:39:33] <mntmn> 500-1000
[20:39:50] <bkeys> Similar to the beta devices sold which makes sense
[20:39:54] <adjtm> mntmn, a couple of questions... will be an option for "just the case"? how difficult would be to adapt the novena mainboard+powerboard+display for your case?
[20:40:19] <mntmn> hmm haven’t looked into the novena mechanicals in detail
[20:40:36] <mntmn> but i’m planning an exchangeable port section for the main box yeah
[20:40:51] <mntmn> not sure about mounting and minimum volume of the novena guts
[20:41:45] <adjtm> novena board has connectors on the same side (~20cm), and the power board only has a power barrel connector that could be extended with a cable
[20:42:01] <mntmn> cool and how high is it?
[20:42:11] <adjtm> novena?
[20:42:19] <mntmn> the mainboard yeah
[20:42:28] <mntmn> how much space in the Y direction :)
[20:42:36] <adjtm> novena board is nice (but a bit expensive)
[20:42:50] <adjtm> it has an older i.mx6 quad (not quad plus)
[20:42:53] <mntmn> no i mean how... tall is it
[20:43:04] <adjtm> about the ethernet connector
[20:43:26] <adjtm> depends on the heatsink installed, but a less taller than the ethernet connector could be installed
[20:43:50] <mntmn> depends also on the size of that connector, i have a bit slimmer one than usual
[20:43:56] <mntmn> but probably it would fit
[20:44:20] <mntmn> well this could be a nice community mod
[20:44:37] <mntmn> so sure a case only option is 100% doable
[20:47:27] <mntmn> i’m more focused on mechanical questions though
[20:48:23] <mntmn> and questions like: can layerscape 2088A fit a radeon in the pcie space? ;)
[20:51:35] <bkeys> I was wondering if with the current board if you could slip a GPU in there with a miniPCIE to PCIE adapter
[20:52:51] <mntmn> bkeys i already tested that
[20:53:00] <mntmn> with a radeon and an older nvidia card
[20:53:03] <bkeys> How did it work out?
[20:53:22] <mntmn> doesn’t work because i.MX6 has only 16MB PCIe space
[20:53:39] <bkeys> Makes sense
[20:53:44] <mntmn> i don’t know if a gfx card exists that is fine with such a little window
[20:54:14] <mntmn> a USB3.0 adapter seemed to work (but i didn’t have USB-C devices at hand)
[20:54:58] <mntmn> the address space on imx8 is much bigger afaik and i’m reading people are using nvidia and amd gpus with LS20XX
[20:55:45] <bkeys> If all went well with the reform, how long do you think it would take you to make a new board for it?
[20:59:01] <adjtm> mntmn, is the case open source? do you provide the cad files?
[20:59:10] <adjtm> do you design it with freecad?
[20:59:34] <mntmn> adjtm yes we will provide the cad files. currently STL and STEP files are published
[21:00:02] <bkeys> So in theory you can make your own reform case right now
[21:00:08] <mntmn> bkeys, i don’t like doing predictions based on too many variables
[21:00:16] * bkeys nods
[21:00:40] <mntmn> yes you can print the case right now. but i would recommend to wait a bit
[21:00:45] <mntmn> until more fixes are pushed ;)
[21:01:20] <mntmn> unfortunately the CAD software that ana uses is not open though (solidworks)
[21:01:50] <mntmn> but the stuff is not terribly complex so it could be ported to openscad or freecad later
[21:07:42] -!- cphealy [cphealy!~cphealy@2602:306:349d:3320:4e72:b9ff:fe27:3a4d] has joined #reform
[21:18:43] <adjtm> mntmn, I can check with the stl files if it would be easy to install novena inside it
[21:20:34] <adjtm> will the case be 3d printed or from a mold?
[21:20:36] <adjtm> mntmn, ^
[21:22:38] <mntmn> one sec, walked the dog
[21:27:20] <mntmn> the final production methods for the case will be decided in 2 or 3 weeks
[21:27:36] <mntmn> the beta version has 2 aluminum CNC milled parts which are pretty nice
[21:27:48] <mntmn> i hope that it will be doable for the crowdfunded version as well
[21:28:45] <mntmn> adjtm: here is the main box part that needs to fit any boards https://github.com
[21:35:49] <adjtm> if you finally use a method for which volume affect price a lot, offering case only (if it works for novena) could be beneficial
[21:36:09] <adjtm> the worst part of novena is that the case is not very handy for a portable device
[21:36:12] <adjtm> mntmn, ^
[21:37:58] <mntmn> yeah i see
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