| - RandyK (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~RandyK@user/randyk) | 00:00 | |
| + RandyK (~RandyK@user/randyk) | 00:00 | |
| - SavagePeanut (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (59eaa45ac7@irc.cheogram.com) | 00:33 | |
| + SavagePeanut (59eaa45ac7@irc.cheogram.com) | 00:37 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 01:50 | |
| - robin (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~robin@user/terpri) | 02:29 | |
| + robin (~robin@user/terpri) | 02:32 | |
| + emdevt (~emdevt@2001:7e8:fa17:7901:889:cfa1:9c37:6514) | 02:45 | |
| elb | I have it on my todo to make some layout changes to the pocket reform keyboard ... I use a preonic regularly, and I use a differnet layout, and it turns out using two different (effectively) preonic layouts is more than my tiny brain can handle | 02:50 |
|---|---|---|
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 02:52 | |
| + wickedshell (~wickedshe@c-174-56-48-20.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) | 03:18 | |
| - nsc (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~nicolas@i5C74DC9F.versanet.de) | 03:21 | |
| + nsc (~nicolas@141-97-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 03:23 | |
| - paperMan1 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~paperManu@198.16.179.107) | 03:38 | |
| - skipwich (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 05:01 | |
| + skipwich (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 05:01 | |
| - aloo_shu_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~aloo_shu@85.51.18.153) | 06:15 | |
| - synnfynn (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 06:16 | |
| - GNUmoon (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 06:51 | |
| + GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 06:52 | |
| - RandyK (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~RandyK@user/randyk) | 06:53 | |
| + RandyK (~RandyK@user/randyk) | 06:53 | |
| - emdevt (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~emdevt@2001:7e8:fa17:7901:889:cfa1:9c37:6514) | 07:29 | |
| - Asmadeus (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~asmadeus@user/meow/Asmadeus) | 08:04 | |
| + Asmadeus (~asmadeus@user/meow/Asmadeus) | 08:06 | |
| - shtrophic (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~m-hrdsqi@user/shtrophic) | 08:06 | |
| - skipwich (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 08:06 | |
| - vkoskiv (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~vkoskiv@109-204-186-7.cust.valoonet.fi) | 08:06 | |
| - pastaonirc (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~pastaonir@user/xha) | 08:07 | |
| + bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@98.19.131.193) | 08:07 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~Thunderbi@98.19.131.193) | 08:08 | |
| * bkeys1 -> bkeys | 08:08 | |
| + vkoskiv (~vkoskiv@109-204-186-7.cust.valoonet.fi) | 08:08 | |
| + skipwich (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 08:08 | |
| + pastaonirc (~pastaonir@user/xha) | 08:09 | |
| + shtrophic (~m-hrdsqi@user/shtrophic) | 08:10 | |
| - vkoskiv (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~vkoskiv@109-204-186-7.cust.valoonet.fi) | 08:15 | |
| + vkoskiv (~vkoskiv@109-204-186-7.cust.valoonet.fi) | 08:17 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 08:28 | |
| + reform6844 (~rene@p200300d0ff167c007fc2100dbdd09829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 08:41 | |
| * reform6844 -> rwa_ | 08:42 | |
| rwa_ | 2 weeks into using the reform as my main machine - missing nothing at the moment :) | 09:11 |
| rwa_ | starting with debian stable right away was a good choice for sure | 09:13 |
| rwa_ | josch: whats the usual delay before a new reform-tools release hits trixie-backports? | 09:14 |
| - skipwich (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 09:17 | |
| josch | rwa_: depends :) | 09:32 |
| josch | rwa_: theoretically i can hack reform.d.n to upload it *now* | 09:33 |
| rwa_ | k :) | 09:33 |
| josch | rwa_: if doing it "right" then reform-tools first needs to transition from unstable to testing and *then* will be uploaded to backports | 09:33 |
| josch | rwa_: do you have an important fix that you'd like to see backported? | 09:34 |
| rwa_ | was only curious, no need to hurry - my reform works just fine | 09:34 |
| josch | perfect :) | 09:34 |
| josch | i'm running trixie on pocket and classic reform as well :) | 09:34 |
| josch | rwa_: and timing wise the answer is "2 days": https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/reform-tools (see the part that says "only 3 of 5 days old") | 09:35 |
| josch | but maybe we run into funny issues because this is also the first time reform-tools is in any debian stable release :) | 09:36 |
| + switchy_ (~switchy@115.130.220.217) | 09:42 | |
| - switchy (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~switchy@mechboards/switchy) | 09:42 | |
| rwa_ | what could possibly go wrong?! :-D | 09:54 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.8) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 10:01 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 10:01 | |
| josch | want a list? ;) | 10:02 |
| rwa_ | ;-) | 10:10 |
| rwa_ | just kidding | 10:10 |
| - rwa_ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~rene@p200300d0ff167c007fc2100dbdd09829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 10:24 | |
| + reform12542 (~rene@p200300d0ff167c007fc2100dbdd09829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 10:28 | |
| * reform12542 -> rwa_ | 10:28 | |
| - Asmadeus (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~asmadeus@user/meow/Asmadeus) | 11:19 | |
| - pastaonirc (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~pastaonir@user/xha) | 11:19 | |
| - vkoskiv (QUIT: Ping timeout: 258 seconds) (~vkoskiv@109-204-186-7.cust.valoonet.fi) | 11:20 | |
| + Asmadeus (~asmadeus@user/meow/Asmadeus) | 11:21 | |
| + pastaonirc (~pastaonir@user/xha) | 11:21 | |
| + vkoskiv (~vkoskiv@109-204-186-7.cust.valoonet.fi) | 11:21 | |
| + mjw (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 11:51 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 12:13 | |
| - Guest4777 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2486:a800:7602:5eff:dc71:a72c) | 12:13 | |
| + hlep (~hlep@user/hlep) | 12:25 | |
| + Guest4777 (~mjw@2001:1c06:2486:a800:7602:5eff:dc71:a72c) | 12:29 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 12:38 | |
| + paperManu (~paperManu@198.16.179.107) | 12:45 | |
| + gustav28 (~gustav@c-78-82-54-94.bbcust.telenor.se) | 13:02 | |
| elb | I probably should have moved my pocket to trixie | 13:02 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 13:19 | |
| rwa_ | elb: i can see why MNT opts for using unstable, if you want to move things fast than debian stable is not the right tool | 13:31 |
| josch | that and the fact that if your users run stable, then you do not see the bugs and without seeing the bugs you cannot fix them and without fixing them, the next stable will suck for everybody | 13:33 |
| josch | making software is not perfect and it is an unfortunate property of the trade that to find bugs, somebody has to encounter them | 13:33 |
| josch | i'm also using trixie which means that i am now seeing bugs that i would've liked to see fixed for trixie but i never encountered them before because i was running bookworm and not unstable | 13:34 |
| josch | the "solution" is of course simple: have more than one reform and have one run stable for your daily business and have the other run unstable so that you see all the bugs and can fix them before they make it into the next stable :) | 13:35 |
| + skipwich (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 13:38 | |
| * Guest4777 -> mjw | 13:40 | |
| rwa_ | :-D | 13:40 |
| elb | yeah, my thing is that I'm using my reform for important stuff | 13:51 |
| elb | I mean important is relative; I'm using it for lecture and meetings and such, but I do _have_ another laptop | 14:01 |
| elb | the stability of trixie would simply reduce the chances I have to use it | 14:01 |
| - paperManu (QUIT: Ping timeout: 245 seconds) (~paperManu@198.16.179.107) | 14:11 | |
| + aloo_shu (~aloo_shu@85.51.18.153) | 14:28 | |
| josch | elb: backing up your /home and re-installing from scratch should not be too bad compared to the potential issues of unstable, no? | 14:30 |
| josch | (though it of course saddens me to loose another beta-tester :D) | 14:31 |
| + RandyK_ (~RandyK@user/randyk) | 14:34 | |
| - RandyK (QUIT: Ping timeout: 272 seconds) (~RandyK@user/randyk) | 14:34 | |
| * RandyK_ -> RandyK | 14:35 | |
| rwa_ | i'm happy to test new stuff, especially reform-specific tooling - but running on unstable seems a bit over the edge for me | 15:08 |
| d_m | yeah so far unstable has been fine for me | 15:21 |
| rwa_ | it mostly will be - until it is not ;) | 15:23 |
| rwa_ | maybe it's just confirmation bias on my side, but there seem to be regular discussions in the community forum about "weird" things going on during update, e.g. https://community.mnt.re/t/the-latest-update-full-upgrade-and-boot-issue/3489/49 | 15:23 |
| d_m | right. i've run debian for a long time and usually run stable but i have run testing and unstable before. restoring a backup is annoying but not the worst thing in the world. | 15:45 |
| - hlep (QUIT: Quit: zzz) (~hlep@user/hlep) | 16:17 | |
| - GNUmoon (QUIT: Ping timeout: 272 seconds) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 16:35 | |
| + wielaard (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 16:41 | |
| + GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 16:41 | |
| + emdevt (~emdevt@2001:7e8:fa17:7901:889:cfa1:9c37:6514) | 16:49 | |
| - mlarkin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~mlarkin@syn-076-081-194-027.biz.spectrum.com) | 16:57 | |
| - rwa_ (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~rene@p200300d0ff167c007fc2100dbdd09829.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 17:06 | |
| - S0rin (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.8) (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 17:15 | |
| + synnfynn (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 17:23 | |
| - emdevt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~emdevt@2001:7e8:fa17:7901:889:cfa1:9c37:6514) | 17:55 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 17:58 | |
| - synnfynn (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 18:00 | |
| + synnfynn (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 18:02 | |
| + libercv (~libercv@user/libercv) | 18:05 | |
| + S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 18:44 | |
| - libercv (QUIT: Quit: Konversation terminated!) (~libercv@user/libercv) | 18:44 | |
| + AnimaInvicta (~AnimaInvi@88-120-179-216.subs.proxad.net) | 18:48 | |
| - skipwich (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 19:03 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 19:04 | |
| - synnfynn (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 4.5.2) (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 19:06 | |
| + skipwich (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 19:14 | |
| + synnfynn (~synnfynn@user/synnfynn) | 19:28 | |
| josch | d_m: it is much easier for people who know what they are doing and how to fix issues | 19:54 |
| josch | it is *very* rare that you get "all my data gets destroyed" bugs in unstable | 19:55 |
| josch | experienced users can usually recover from the other 99.9% of bugs | 19:55 |
| josch | the thread you link is a great example -- user shiguru shows these light blue messages filling their screen and that makes it *look* as if their system is borked | 19:59 |
| josch | where in fact it's just plymouth messing things up and if you start typing your luks passphrase then everything will be fine | 19:59 |
| josch | even as an experienced user I had no idea that this issue was caused by plymouth | 20:00 |
| josch | it was minute who figured that out just a few days ago after I (temporarily) had added plymouth to reform-desktop-full | 20:00 |
| josch | but the thread is from *June* | 20:00 |
| josch | so we have problems because a) i messed things up or b) the user changed something on their system or c) stuff in unstable broke | 20:01 |
| josch | and it often takes a lot of time and effort to figure out which of these it is and how to fix it | 20:01 |
| + reform11696 (~reform116@p200300ee572785006159c3ae7cc6668c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 20:01 | |
| josch | it's september now -- took 3 months to figure this one out | 20:01 |
| - schalken (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net) | 20:02 | |
| - reform11696 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~reform116@p200300ee572785006159c3ae7cc6668c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 20:07 | |
| + schalken (~schalken@117-118-178-69.gci.net) | 20:08 | |
| - wickedshell (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~wickedshe@c-174-56-48-20.hsd1.nm.comcast.net) | 20:12 | |
| + reform11696 (~reform116@p200300ee572785006159c3ae7cc6668c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 20:45 | |
| - reform11696 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~reform116@p200300ee572785006159c3ae7cc6668c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 20:54 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 21:13 | |
| + tadeus_brick (tadeustad@psifactor.pl) | 22:08 | |
| - TadeusTaD (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (tadeustad@user/TadeusTaD) | 22:08 | |
| - gustav28 (QUIT: Quit: Quit) (~gustav@c-78-82-54-94.bbcust.telenor.se) | 22:15 | |
| elb | josch: for now I'm staying on unstable, but probably if it twitches I'll hit trixie | 22:48 |
| elb | like I'm unlikely to _reinstall_ unstable | 22:48 |
| elb | I've been struggling a little bit with wifi performance, I think | 23:11 |
| elb | (not related to unstable) | 23:11 |
| elb | I've been hoping it will get better as the semester wears on and overall student presence on campus drops off, but I have unfortunate dropouts when I'm trying to do things like live coding | 23:12 |
| + LainIwakura (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) | 23:13 | |
| - LainIwakura (QUIT: Client Quit) (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) | 23:16 | |
| * mjw -> Guest5411 | 23:23 | |
| * wielaard -> mjw | 23:23 | |
| + LainIwakura (~LainIwaku@user/LainIwakura) | 23:34 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:85f:9a74:ce00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 23:38 | |
| - AnimaInvicta (PART: !!unknown attribute: msg!!) (~AnimaInvi@88-120-179-216.subs.proxad.net) | 23:39 | |
| - xktr (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~xktr@user/xktr) | 23:44 | |
| + xktr (~xktr@user/xktr) | 23:49 | |
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