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| chartreuse | minute: sorry for the late reply wasn't checking my irc notifications. Uh I can't remember what else I did, I thought the DTS did it but there might be something to configure with pulse or such | 02:22 |
|---|---|---|
| chartreuse | I need to pull up my reform again and take a look, it's been a while | 02:22 |
| + aloo_shu_ (~aloo_shu@85.51.17.5) | 02:44 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@173.16.175.75) | 02:45 | |
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| + jevans (~user@user/jevans) | 10:23 | |
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| abortretryfail | chaseadam: if you decide to fork the LPC code let me know. I suspect having the RNG/SS pin floating like it is causes problems, but I only have my own reform to go off of. | 12:22 |
| minute | abortretryfail: hmm i could terminate it in this new rev, but how exactly... | 12:25 |
| minute | (i don't think i've seen problems from this so far) | 12:26 |
| abortretryfail | Idk. I want to do some experiments on mine but I haven't found the time. | 12:26 |
| abortretryfail | Problem 1: Charges too damn fast. This overhwelms some power supplies (USB-C via trigger cable, especially) and is bad for battery longevity. | 12:26 |
| abortretryfail | Problem 2: Charge current seems variable. I know it's supposed to be depending on the charge level, but maybe also temperature? If I turn the computer off right after using it then plug it in, often times it's fine, but if I plug it in off and cold, it will pull more current? | 12:28 |
| minute | abortretryfail: this charging current problem is solved in the new rev | 12:28 |
| abortretryfail | I have no data to back this up, only anecdotes from frustrating "Why is it refusing to charge I've used this adapter before!" And "Holy crap that was fast how is it at 100% already?" | 12:28 |
| abortretryfail | Oh it is? Even when using the DC input, not USB-C? | 12:29 |
| abortretryfail | Maybe I'm a weirdo, but most of the time my Reform charges off a 13.8V DC power for my ham radio equipment. That source can supply 50A and it always charges, but the current is not always consistent. | 12:31 |
| + paperManu (~paperManu@107.159.243.8) | 12:32 | |
| minute | abortretryfail: yeah the current was unlimited before | 12:32 |
| minute | abortretryfail: because there was a huge resistor on the ILIMIT pin, but it has to be like 7.15k ohms | 12:32 |
| minute | abortretryfail: if i'm not mistaken you can also just swap out that resistor on your board to fix this problem | 12:32 |
| abortretryfail | That seems easy enoguh to fix, yeah. | 12:33 |
| abortretryfail | Was there a post on teh forum about that? I try to stay up to date on stuff but I'm not good at it. | 12:33 |
| minute | abortretryfail: yes i just checked, the resistor is R8. it is 100k by default, which means the current is unlimited. if you replace it by 7.15k for example, it will be limited to 35.5% which should be like 53.2W | 12:34 |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-209-99-205-52.greenmountainaccess.net) | 12:34 | |
| minute | abortretryfail: there was no post about it yet. i discovered this problem during the design of the 3.0 rev that i'm polishing r/n | 12:35 |
| abortretryfail | <3 | 12:35 |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-209-99-205-52.greenmountainaccess.net) | 12:35 | |
| abortretryfail | Anyway, about the RNG/SS pin, maybe a capacitor for the "soft start" function to work? If it actually works... I know you mentioned it has silicon bugs. | 12:37 |
| gordon1 | is there a slim chance that we can have current to be adjustable by EC? (you are talking about reform not reform pocket, arent you?) | 12:40 |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 272 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-209-99-205-52.greenmountainaccess.net) | 12:40 | |
| minute | gordon1: no chance atm because too risky for me to engineer this into a running batch | 12:40 |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-209-99-205-52.greenmountainaccess.net) | 12:41 | |
| gordon1 | aww, that's ok i guess | 12:41 |
| minute | gordon1: would be interesting as a research project for someone | 12:41 |
| minute | abortretryfail: i could maybe put a pad in for that | 12:42 |
| abortretryfail | A pad for experimentation would be cool. Easier than trying to sneak a tiny wire under that package. | 12:42 |
| minute | yeah | 12:43 |
| minute | ok noted in the todo :D | 12:43 |
| abortretryfail | TY | 12:43 |
| gordon1 | minute: my use case is that my usb-c changer can deliver 60W or 100W depending on if there is something else plugged in it, and it looke like EC can read what PD controller negotiated with the charger | 12:43 |
| minute | gordon1: i see. so you would need to switch between 2 pulldowns on the ilimit pin basically. | 12:44 |
| gordon1 | but probably abortretryfail is right and it's a good idea to charge the batteries with rated current (1C?) for longevity | 12:45 |
| abortretryfail | I might put a pot on it for manual control when using solar panels or something. | 12:46 |
| josch | hah, my batteries regularly get charged at maximum speed XD I have a usb-c cable which tells me how much power my reform draws and it regularly is at 92W+... | 12:46 |
| abortretryfail | I was trying to charge mine off solar a month or so ago and the load impedance was lower than the source, bad combo. | 12:46 |
| gordon1 | minute: i'll think about half-assing digital pot on hack the planet when i'll finally get my reform | 12:48 |
| gordon1 | unless it could be done with DAC | 12:49 |
| gordon1 | oh wait so this thing also supposed to limit how much laptop can consume from the battery as well? | 12:52 |
| gordon1 | i mean LTC4020 | 12:52 |
| gordon1 | nevermind | 12:53 |
| abortretryfail | I haven't looked at the schematic in a while. | 12:54 |
| abortretryfail | gordon1: if the SOM is consuming > 53W from battery I think you're going to need a bigger heat sink. | 12:58 |
| gordon1 | well it's more about combined current, but it's not a problem anyways, i was just reading schematics with my ass | 13:00 |
| minute | btw fun thing: https://www.cnx-software.com/2025/01/11/nanocom-adn-com-express-type-10-module-based-on-intel-alder-lake-n-soc/ | 13:00 |
| minute | if someone wants a core i3-n305 :D | 13:00 |
| josch | hm.... can it suspend? ;) | 13:02 |
| minute | i don't know, maybe? :D | 13:02 |
| + gustav28 (~gustav@c-78-82-52-61.bbcust.telenor.se) | 13:02 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~textual@47.202.75.129) | 13:03 | |
| josch | suspend/resume is horrible... i just wasted days of my time with this imx8mq resume thing which turned out just me having messed up the /sys path... And my x86 thinkpad e15 at work cannot suspend/resume either, so no advantage over the reform XD | 13:03 |
| minute | yeah, it's not an arm-only issue... | 13:03 |
| minute | i still want to try hibernate on rk3588 | 13:03 |
| abortretryfail | I can't get suspend/resume to work either. I think my nvme hates it. | 13:03 |
| josch | in contrast to the reform, the thinkpad has no way for me to connect UART to see anything on serial when it resumes | 13:04 |
| josch | being able to do that was what ultimately let minute find the problem with imx8mq resume | 13:04 |
| gordon1 | with coreboot it has console-over-audio | 13:04 |
| josch | no way that's awesome :D | 13:04 |
| abortretryfail | What does it do, morse code? | 13:05 |
| gordon1 | no, it does dialup sounds | 13:05 |
| abortretryfail | Oh, a FSK modem | 13:05 |
| gordon1 | it also takes forever to boot | 13:05 |
| minute | so you need a modem on the other side? | 13:05 |
| abortretryfail | Yeah probably a smartphone. I'd rather have morse code :( | 13:06 |
| gordon1 | minute: mic in other laptop and a tool from coreboot suffice | 13:06 |
| + mtm (~textual@47.202.75.129) | 13:06 | |
| josch | wow :D | 13:06 |
| gordon1 | i didn't try it for ages tho, i hope it's still there in the codebase | 13:07 |
| gordon1 | yep, still there https://github.com/coreboot/coreboot/tree/main/util/spkmodem_recv | 13:09 |
| abortretryfail | Displays have become so hard to initialize that its easier to make sounds than to put pixels on a screen. C64s are laughing at us all from the grave. | 13:11 |
| josch | i had a dishwasher repair person over the other day -- they upload and download firmware by flashing an LED o0 | 13:12 |
| abortretryfail | Nice :) | 13:12 |
| gordon1 | tbh it's also about the fact that coreboot generates good hundred kilobytes of boot logs and you don't want to also implement a scrollback, do you? | 13:13 |
| gordon1 | even linux failed at that! | 13:13 |
| abortretryfail | I am so mad that Linux removed that scrollback. | 13:13 |
| abortretryfail | Troubleshooting from the KMS console sucks so bad now. :( | 13:13 |
| gordon1 | tbh i'm all for just making uart console mandatory on all devices | 13:13 |
| abortretryfail | Then you have to carry a serial terminal around | 13:13 |
| gordon1 | well, that's easier (and probably healthier for sanity) than a laptop with microphone and another one that makes dialup sounds! | 13:16 |
| abortretryfail | I'm pretty sure if dialup sounds harmed people, the internet wouldn't have made it out of the 90's | 13:18 |
| abortretryfail | bbl, i have to get ready for work. Thanks for fixing the charging limit problem on mb3.0, minute. | 13:20 |
| minute | abortretryfail: np! | 13:20 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 13:39 | |
| * Guest6455 -> mjw | 13:51 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-209-99-205-52.greenmountainaccess.net) | 13:54 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@2600:382:a909:eee:91bc:4183:f267:a1b8) | 13:55 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murdock@2600:382:a909:eee:91bc:4183:f267:a1b8) | 14:14 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@50.234.255.130) | 14:15 | |
| - wickedshell (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~wickedshe@2601:8c0:800:4baa:81a1:d04:5069:b70f) | 14:16 | |
| + aloo_shu_ (~aloo_shu@85.51.18.162) | 14:35 | |
| - aloo_shu (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~aloo_shu@90.166.98.167) | 14:36 | |
| * aloo_shu_ -> aloo_shu | 14:36 | |
| gsora | that intel soc seems cool | 14:44 |
| + reform19857 (~coder@88.97.17.88) | 14:48 | |
| + _justin_kelly0 (~justinkel@user/justin-kelly/x-6011154) | 15:07 | |
| - _justin_kelly (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~justinkel@user/justin-kelly/x-6011154) | 15:08 | |
| * _justin_kelly0 -> _justin_kelly | 15:08 | |
| + wickedshell (~wickedshe@2601:8c0:800:4baa:9344:f080:6c7d:42ef) | 15:23 | |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 15:44 | |
| chaseadam | minute: thanks for the details and the pointer about the current limit. Will make sure I address that when I rework. Any chance you remember the reason behind the voltage limit switch between the NTC and RNG/SS control? | 15:48 |
| [tj] | I wonder when the weather will get better in crowdsupply land | 15:49 |
| chaseadam | abortretryfail: definitely interested in adding the soft start. I was thinking about this from the "burn off" top balancing as well. If it can be limited to very low level durning burnoff, but not sure if that really buys much (especially for the risk) | 15:50 |
| chaseadam | gordon1: curious about the current limit for consume and charge as well, I will definitely take a look at that before messing with it. | 15:50 |
| + aloo_shu_ (~aloo_shu@90.166.193.39) | 15:54 | |
| ericsfraga | [tj]: frustrating, isn't it. :-( | 15:56 |
| - aloo_shu (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~aloo_shu@85.51.18.162) | 15:56 | |
| * aloo_shu_ -> aloo_shu | 15:56 | |
| minute | chaseadam: yes the RNG/SS failed on some boards | 16:04 |
| minute | chaseadam: experts couldn't figure it out | 16:05 |
| minute | chaseadam: so we dropped usage of that pin | 16:05 |
| chaseadam | minute: I caught that, I am seeking some context on the change to (over)voltage limits which were part of that fix. | 16:08 |
| minute | chaseadam: ah ok. the chip just behaved differently after stopping to use rng/ss | 16:08 |
| chaseadam | minute: wild! The "undefined" behavior seems very unlike LTC... Thanks! | 16:09 |
| chaseadam | minute: I see a few mentions of holding the LPC RESET pin high when using deep sleep. We appear to use deep-sleep in the "undervolted" and "powersave" states, but appear to be floating that reset pin. Have you confirmed this is not problematic? | 16:20 |
| minute | chaseadam: i'm actually considering to get rid of lpc deep sleep because it's quite annoying (wakeup via uart is hard/takes long) and doesn't seem to improve power consumption much | 16:21 |
| minute | so i commented it out yesterday for my own device | 16:21 |
| minute | it's especially bad for undervolted state and should be removed from there | 16:21 |
| minute | because it's hard to charge the device out of undervoltage state as the controller goes back to sleep all the time and stops charging | 16:22 |
| chaseadam | ah, that is a good point | 16:22 |
| minute | and now with protected battery boards it's not that critical anymore | 16:22 |
| chaseadam | to address my power drain when full off, I am considering a separate "power on" button on the side panel hooked to PIO0_1 to allow wake up without keyboard and switching the keyboard supply to SoC rail to limit possible drains on the battery in poweroff state. | 16:25 |
| minute | chaseadam: i think one should add a switch for the standby_3v3 | 16:26 |
| chaseadam | I considered that as well, but I remembered the LPC controls charging. Probably not a show stopper and would be *much* simpler | 16:27 |
| minute | on my 3.0 design there is still some residual 10mA drain even with lpc off and no peripherals. not sure where exactly it's coming from | 16:28 |
| chaseadam | ouch! | 16:28 |
| minute | on the previous version it was around 7mA | 16:29 |
| minute | but, in on state the 3.0 board is more power efficient due to updated 5v and 3v3 switchers and removal of some power switches that consumed power | 16:29 |
| chaseadam | good to know, will go the switch rail route to start with and maybe start hunting for power vampires | 16:30 |
| minute | cool | 16:30 |
| minute | in this moment i just exchanged 100k pulldowns on the big switchers EN with 10k because the 100k is not enough resistance so they turn on in LPC reset state | 16:31 |
| minute | (3.0) | 16:31 |
| minute | (too much resistance i mean) | 16:32 |
| minute | aha, with 10k it's good | 16:32 |
| chaseadam | cool | 16:32 |
| minute | also i think there's some power drain via the SPI lines of lpc -> soc | 16:34 |
| minute | (or via the uart lines) | 16:34 |
| minute | removal of the som leads to 4mA or so less off-power use | 16:34 |
| minute | ok, with som removed and usb-uart supply turned off, i get 10mA draw @ 20V input into battery node, but "only" 4-5mA @ 20V when lpc is in bootloader mode (i.e. our firmware not running) | 16:49 |
| minute | at 10V input it's around 7mA | 16:50 |
| minute | (measured with fluke 117 in series) | 16:51 |
| minute | we could look into other reasons for excess power draw by LPC, gpio related for example | 16:52 |
| gordon1 | out of curiosity, i found no sleep routines in keyboard nor trackball, how much do they consume compared to lpc? | 16:59 |
| gordon1 | with all LEDs and display off ofc | 16:59 |
| - amk (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~amk@user/amk) | 16:59 | |
| + amk (~amk@user/amk) | 17:00 | |
| minute | gordon1: kbd4 very little, like 1-2mA (but idk if that was at 10V or 20V) | 17:02 |
| minute | interestingly, OLED now shows 0.000A @ 25V (actual batteries) | 17:05 |
| - Ar|stote|is (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~linx@149.210.16.26) | 17:05 | |
| minute | i guess there were also some cable losses from my lab power supply -> dupont cable pin and fluke probe held together with finger :D | 17:06 |
| + Ar|stote|is (~linx@149.210.16.213) | 17:10 | |
| gordon1 | cool, that's impressive of rp2040, i think i underestimated it | 17:11 |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~murdock@50.234.255.130) | 17:45 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@2600:382:a909:eee:91bc:4183:f267:a1b8) | 17:46 | |
| cwebber | re: suspend/resume, out of curiosity | 18:01 |
| cwebber | will the Reform Next have sensors in the hinges to know when the lid closes? | 18:01 |
| cwebber | so that suspend-on-close can become an option | 18:01 |
| cwebber | I would be ok manually suspending, just curious | 18:01 |
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| * mark_ -> mjw | 18:25 | |
| + Guest9272 (~mjw@2001:1c06:2486:a800:7602:5eff:dc71:a72c) | 18:25 | |
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| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone) | 19:31 | |
| grimmware | minute: I've just installed the most recent keyboard firmware to see if it fixes my periodic lockups. I just had one where the reset button didn't even work but when I removed the right-hand connector to the lid the keyboard recovered (I assume this is the USB to the SOM as it could still talk to the sysctl which I'm assuming is uart on the left hand cable) | 20:36 |
| + aloo_shu_ (~aloo_shu@90.166.99.76) | 20:36 | |
| grimmware | will let you know how I get on with it but I am quite hopeful. | 20:37 |
| grimmware | does it always give the message on the OLED when the watchdog causes it to restart? | 20:37 |
| - aloo_shu (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~aloo_shu@90.166.193.39) | 20:38 | |
| * aloo_shu_ -> aloo_shu | 20:38 | |
| ch | afaik yes | 20:39 |
| grimmware | awesome | 20:39 |
| grimmware | I'm excited about this change, I think a bit more resiliency here is going to be a bit more forgiving of dumb shit in the sysctl | 20:42 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 20:44 | |
| ch | i've got the bad feeling that there might be different problems that all manifest in the same way ("keyboard locks up"). but no hard data :) | 20:45 |
| + mjw (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 20:49 | |
| ^alex | yeah, we meant to solder SWD wires to the keyboard when we were doing earlier hacking attempts | 20:54 |
| ^alex | but haven't had the time/space/energy/capacity for anything lately | 20:54 |
| + savasten (~savasten@64.39.201.193) | 21:10 | |
| - Gooberpatrol66 (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 21:16 | |
| + Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 21:17 | |
| savasten | Good day all. Since the latest keyboard FW and my recompile for my layout I have noticed the backlight dimming takes about 60 minutes. I believe that is controlled in the Main.c part of the firmware. I am struggling with the math conversion of the if statement on line 521. Does anyone know if I am in the correct location and maybe what the math | 21:21 |
| savasten | conversion would be? | 21:21 |
| ch | looks like the right place to me | 21:31 |
| ch | i dont understand what the old timebase was | 21:32 |
| ch | the new one is one tick per 5ms | 21:33 |
| ch | which works out to 42min before the leds start turning off, i think | 21:34 |
| savasten | Perfect thank you so much. | 21:36 |
| + digitalrane (~rane@user/digitalrane) | 21:40 | |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 22:12 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 22:14 | |
| - gustav28 (QUIT: Quit: Quit) (~gustav@c-78-82-52-61.bbcust.telenor.se) | 22:15 | |
| * mark_ -> mjw | 22:28 | |
| + mtm_ (~textual@47.202.75.129) | 22:58 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~textual@47.202.75.129) | 23:00 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~Thunderbi@38-146-94-247.echocast.zone) | 23:16 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~murdock@50.234.255.130) | 23:28 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@2600:381:ca0f:cf0b:dc8c:61dc:59e6:c150) | 23:28 | |
| grimmware | savasten: oh if you're going to patch it do you think you'd be able to try to get it upstreamed? | 23:45 |
| - murdock (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murdock@2600:381:ca0f:cf0b:dc8c:61dc:59e6:c150) | 23:54 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-209-99-205-52.greenmountainaccess.net) | 23:55 | |
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