| grimmware | sigrid: 22nd August | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| grimmware | sigrid: did you order one? | 00:06 |
| minute | grimmware: sigrid: we shipped some pocket rcores first because less parts/easier to ship. but we're also shipping reform rcores now | 00:10 |
| sigrid | grimmware: yes. in march | 00:17 |
| sigrid | minute: nice! | 00:17 |
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| + xha (~xha@user/xha) | 09:00 | |
| hramrach | minute: I mostly use one that has the chip hidden inside a molded adapter. The one with exposed chip is http://aliexpress.com/item/4001243047536.html https://pasteboard.co/OOBk4Fsq1WQL.jpg but I have not really used that much, only tested once or twice. | 09:41 |
| hramrach | this one has better picture http://aliexpress.com/item/1005004836625234.html | 09:46 |
| xha | just got my pocket reform rcore bundle. yay! without wifi, because i already have a card. however, it's missing a thermal pad. is that right? am i supposed to use the one that is already in the pocket reform? | 10:02 |
| minute | xha: hmm there should be a very thin thermal pad square | 10:12 |
| xha | in the black box, the inner one, right? | 10:13 |
| minute | xha: yeah. like 2x2cm square, iirc blue cover plastic on one side | 10:14 |
| minute | the thermal pad is only 0.5mm thin | 10:14 |
| minute | asking my colleague where it should be | 10:14 |
| minute | xha: paper manual is there? | 10:15 |
| xha | yes, paper manual is there | 10:15 |
| xha | but no worries, it seems like the existing thermal pad also works | 10:15 |
| minute | xha: which country are you in? (in case it's really missing and you can't find it, we can send another) | 10:15 |
| xha | germany | 10:15 |
| minute | xha: ok, it will just bulk up the back a bit maybe? | 10:16 |
| xha | hmm, not sure about that. will try. | 10:16 |
| minute | xha: dsi flat cable was there? | 10:17 |
| xha | no, also no cable... | 10:17 |
| minute | ugh | 10:17 |
| xha | i wasn't sure if i need it though? | 10:17 |
| minute | xha: ah wait, is this for pocket or for big reform? | 10:18 |
| xha | pocket :D | 10:18 |
| minute | ah yeah sorry, coffee not 100% working yet | 10:18 |
| xha | the i.MX8M Plus already has a cable on it. can i use that cable? | 10:19 |
| minute | xha: ok so without dsi cable you can't connect the display. the old cable is too short. we include a longer cable | 10:19 |
| xha | ah. i see. | 10:19 |
| minute | xha: so i suspect there should be a little bag or sth with the dsi cable and thermal pad... i will drive to the hq now and get to the bottom of it, and if necessary we can send you replacements quickly. maybe it was wrapped in inner packaging material? | 10:20 |
| xha | hmm, no, i even unfolded the packaging just to be sure. | 10:21 |
| xha | very sure that there is no thermal pad or cable. | 10:21 |
| minute | xha: ok, very sorry for that then. can you send me your order number in DM? i'll make sure you quickly get those | 10:24 |
| xha | sent it. | 10:25 |
| minute | xha: thanks. i have confirmation now that it was forgotten on one (max 2) orders who ordered without wifi | 10:26 |
| xha | i see. thanks so much for the quick help :) | 10:28 |
| minute | xha: we will ship out a replacement today | 10:28 |
| xha | minute: if you do that, could you maby also include a ethernet adapter if i order it quickly now and send you the order number? i think i'll need it, but i guess also fine if that is not possible. | 10:35 |
| minute | xha: oh yeah, sure | 10:37 |
| xha | alrighty, send you the order number. y'all are so cool, no other company tat i know would ever do this! thanks :) | 10:42 |
| xha | /s/tat/that/ | 10:42 |
| hramrach | found why I cannot build images on x86: https://source.mnt.re/hramrach/reform-system-image/-/commit/f69844d5e0fa0c6bb42ffcb727010bfdd0d76344 | 11:00 |
| hramrach | btw the mmdebstrap hook documentation leaves a lot to be desired | 11:01 |
| josch | hramrach: mmdebstrap bugs to me please | 11:01 |
| josch | and why are you copying aarch64-binfmt-P into the chroot? | 11:03 |
| - jacobk (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~quassel@47-186-105-237.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) | 11:03 | |
| + jacobk (~quassel@47-186-105-237.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) | 11:03 | |
| hramrach | josch: because that's the arm64 binary interpreter. just like having bash in the chroot is required to run bash scripts having qemu is required to run arm binaries on x86 | 11:06 |
| josch | arm binaries on your x86 box should be automatically interpreted by the linux binfmt_misc support which loads qemu on the *outside* of your chroot | 11:08 |
| hramrach | josch: except it does not. | 11:08 |
| josch | in the past, there used to be a time when qemu-user-static needed to be copied into the chroot, yes | 11:08 |
| josch | hramrach: on what system are you running mmdebstrap? | 11:08 |
| hramrach | I tried on ppc64 and there not having qemu inside gives ENOENT. on x86 it does something, and whike on Debian that something works for me it crashes the moment dpkg tries to unpack something | 11:09 |
| hramrach | debian x86 container on openSUSE Leap | 11:10 |
| + andreas-e (~Andreas@2001:861:c4:f2f0::c64) | 11:10 | |
| josch | ah it might be that indeed opensuse has a different default config for binfmt support | 11:10 |
| josch | you need the F flag for the interpreter to only be loaded once | 11:10 |
| josch | which is the default on debian for a few years now | 11:10 |
| hramrach | no having the interpreter is not the problem. the problem is having something that does not work | 11:11 |
| hramrach | as in not having the interpreter at all produces a different error | 11:12 |
| josch | hramrach: maybe you can file a bug with mmdebstrap about how it can improve its docs for the hooks | 11:13 |
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| * Guest373 -> mjw | 12:29 | |
| + paperManu (~paperManu@198.16.214.40) | 12:34 | |
| + blast007 (~blast@user/blast007) | 12:44 | |
| + gustav28 (~gustav@c-78-82-52-34.bbcust.telenor.se) | 13:02 | |
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| + ehenter (~ehenter@212-149-229-243.bb.dnainternet.fi) | 13:44 | |
| josch | gustav28: re external usb power: i did try attaching a keyboard and mouse, both connected via a usb hub to one port of the reform | 14:11 |
| gustav28 | and that worked? | 14:11 |
| josch | gustav28: specifically this contraption: https://floss.social/@josch/111658676101676834 | 14:13 |
| josch | no, it does not | 14:13 |
| josch | if one tries, the internal keyboard switches off | 14:13 |
| josch | it's working after bridging the two power cables of all 3 usb connectors into a single one, but that's not really ideal :) | 14:14 |
| josch | my workaround is, to operate that external keyboard/trackball combo as a battery powered bluetooth keyboard | 14:15 |
| gustav28 | my usb hub can take 5v in to help with the power so I think I could make it work - but too bad the laptop doesn't have enough power on its own | 14:19 |
| josch | it does -- just not on a single port | 14:23 |
| josch | you have to combine more than one | 14:23 |
| gustav28 | yea | 15:05 |
| + [tj] (sid609767@id-609767.lymington.irccloud.com) | 15:27 | |
| minute | i'll try to fix that on the new mb | 15:38 |
| minute | at the moment experimenting with R8 resistor (ILIMIT/input current limit on LTC4020) | 15:51 |
| josch | minute: you are able to reproduce the 75 W power draw spikes? I mean it works fine with a larger power supply... | 15:54 |
| minute | josch: yeah at least my PSU at home has some problems with that, that's how i was able to develop the soft start patch which alleviates it but not perfectly | 15:57 |
| minute | yeah i'm able to repro this here with full white rgb backlight on kbd, external usb gbe, 1080p@60 video decoding on youtube and then trying to charge | 16:02 |
| minute | (with rk3588) | 16:02 |
| josch | And the lower the battery charge level, the more they draw -- according to irc log, i even had them draw 88 W when the batteries were very low: https://mntre.com/reform-irc-logs/2024-01-19.log.html#t19:26:31 | 16:05 |
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| + qbit (~qbit@mail.suah.dev) | 16:11 | |
| minute | josch: yeah makes sense | 16:20 |
| minute | going through all the formulas the max charge current is currently set at 2.5A by 0.02ohms sense resistor R177, which yields 72.5W woops | 16:29 |
| minute | inductor max current is set to 5A... which is of course too much for our puny power supply | 16:30 |
| minute | (almost 150W max) | 16:30 |
| minute | setting R8 to 20k would yield 100% of that limit, 10k = 50%. but it should be set to max 40% to yield 60W max inductor current | 16:32 |
| minute | so R8 should be something like 7k-8k ohms | 16:32 |
| minute | i have a 5.1k here so trying that | 16:42 |
| minute | amazingly, this has an effect on the charging current. | 16:44 |
| minute | now, it's obvious that the current is primarily used to power the system and what's "left" is used to charge the batteries... i.e. the negative amps number gets lower the more power the system expends | 16:46 |
| minute | and charger is happy... | 16:46 |
| minute | this also prevents the main coil from getting very hot | 16:48 |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 17:07 | |
| hramrach | anyone is aware of any guidance on how to set up gitlab to be able to build images? | 17:09 |
| hramrach | The image builds overflow so many limits that finding them all is very difficult | 17:10 |
| - mark_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 17:23 | |
| minute | there's one downside of putting the serial console(s) on the same usb-c that's for power delivery: it makes it harder to externally power the board + debug it at the same time | 17:28 |
| minute | (the debug host would need to be able to supply up to 60W PD on that port) | 17:28 |
| hramrach | There are PD docks that should solve that problem but it's extra equipment needed, and does not work with debug hosts that have USB A | 18:08 |
| gustav28 | will there be a usb-c data connector on the new mb, or only one for PD? | 18:12 |
| gustav28 | is the resistor talk for reform mb 2.6? was that related to usb power me and josch talked about or something else? | 18:15 |
| josch | gustav28: the resistor talk is for how much power the mb 2.6 is allowed to draw from the power brick | 18:16 |
| josch | gustav28: the usb connector power issue is a different one, that one is about how much power the mb 2.6 is able to provide to stuff you plug into it | 18:16 |
| ch | rcore \o/ | 18:27 |
| minute | ch: arrived? | 19:06 |
| ch | yep, and already swapped in :) | 19:06 |
| gustav28 | exciting | 19:14 |
| gustav28 | josch ok! | 19:16 |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 19:21 | |
| minute | ch: oh nice, and it works? | 19:26 |
| - hairu (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (m-uotkmd@user/hairu) | 20:01 | |
| + hairu (m-uotkmd@user/hairu) | 20:03 | |
| minute | aha https://www.coolgear.com/product/usb-c-usb-b-power-delivery-adapter-wmounting-kit | 20:09 |
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| - mjw (QUIT: Killed (mercury.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 20:48 | |
| * mark_ -> mjw | 20:48 | |
| + Guest4830 (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 20:49 | |
| + guiller (~guiller@user/guiller) | 20:51 | |
| - guiller (QUIT: Client Quit) (~guiller@user/guiller) | 20:52 | |
| minute | hmm https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/hdctools/+/HEAD/docs/ccd.md | 20:55 |
| ch | minute: yes! have to figure out tomorrow using the ssd again (without wiping it) | 20:56 |
| minute | on reform mb2.6/3.0: i guess the cleanest solution would be to have the usb-c PD port also be a host (at least usb 2.0), so it gives the most value for regular use cases. but when switching that port to a debug interface, charging gets very tricky. it's not possible to charge reform with 5V, but that's what the debug host will most probably output. so for long debug sessions one would need to | 21:01 |
| minute | switch to the debug uart headers again (meh) or power it differently, or we need some contraption to split usb-c PD into that port from usb device signals for a host | 21:01 |
| minute | ch: great! | 21:06 |
| minute | ch: any relative impressions of the speed vs before? :D | 21:06 |
| ch | :D | 21:06 |
| ch | feels like 400% speed | 21:06 |
| minute | nice | 21:07 |
| minute | when desoldering R94 it is possible to power the motherboard by 5V | 21:31 |
| minute | aha this might be what i want https://mastodon.social/@janamarie@chaos.social/113352547730170149 | 21:44 |
| hramrach | 5v but what current? My PD PSU limits USB A to something like 22,5W, probably to conform to the USB spec about maximum current. | 21:46 |
| minute | hramrach: yeah unfortunately it doesn't fully work anyway, something still limits current on the board @ 5v | 21:48 |
| hramrach | the PD injector is neat, probably something that can be shipped as optional accessory | 21:50 |
| hramrach | complexity in the ballpark of the HDMI unbrick dongle | 21:51 |
| minute | yeah... | 21:52 |
| minute | making this port a host that can switch to being a debug device would be complex though. if i think back to pocket reform usb data capability had to be advertised over pd protocol to mark it as a host that wants to sink power at the same time | 21:54 |
| ch | well debug accessory mode is a specific CC1/2 config, and then everything else becomes vendor specific | 21:55 |
| hramrach | the debug mode here is presumably standard USB UART that can be used with any common USB stack | 21:56 |
| ch | so somehow the mb needs to notice the debug accessory and then it should stop being a host i guess | 21:56 |
| minute | hramrach: yep | 21:57 |
| minute | ch: sorry i chose the wrong words, it's not an accessory, just usb cdc | 21:57 |
| ch | ah | 21:57 |
| hramrach | also when it can be switched the switching can fail | 21:58 |
| hramrach | you do not want to debug the debugger | 21:58 |
| ch | havent looked closer at the ti chip, but maybe it can support debug accessory mode, if you need/want the special pd-injecting anyway | 21:58 |
| ch | but might become too complicated | 21:59 |
| ch | should maybe read up on how the debug stuff works on macs | 21:59 |
| hramrach | technically the PD injector is not special, and shiuld work with any device. modulo implementation bugs | 22:04 |
| hramrach | using the debug accessory mode would change it to something very special | 22:06 |
| ch | TPS25730D DBG_ACC pin: Open Drain Output, Debug Accessory attached Rp/Rp or Rd/Rd.; would need a mux attached to that to switch host/device so it all happens without involvement from linux/uboot | 22:06 |
| + spew (~spew@189.217.198.185) | 22:08 | |
| minute | ch: mhm! | 22:14 |
| - gustav28 (QUIT: Quit: Quit) (~gustav@c-78-82-52-34.bbcust.telenor.se) | 22:15 | |
| Zaba | Apple devices use vendor-defined messages over CC to control pin muxing, it’s all been reverse engineered and documented by asahi linux people | 22:36 |
| - jacobk (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~quassel@47-186-105-237.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) | 22:38 | |
| minute | cursed idea: on one set of usb2.0 pins (orientation A) have uarts, on the other set (orientation B) LPC usb port/flashing interface. otherwise another hub is required (or no flashing from the outside, which could be ok too...) | 22:42 |
| minute | opinions? | 22:42 |
| josch | at some point, just plugging a cable into some internal connector becomes more intuitive, robust and straight forward again :) | 22:45 |
| minute | yeah you're right | 22:46 |
| minute | also, lpc has to be put in programming mode and reset | 22:46 |
| minute | so scrapping that and only putting the uarts on that port | 22:46 |
| - ehenter (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~ehenter@212-149-229-243.bb.dnainternet.fi) | 23:01 | |
| hramrach | The Google CCD cable only works in one direction which is kind of cursed in its own way for connector that is supposed to be transparently reversioble. Is the debug accessory defined in such a way that it's unavoidable or is that Google invention?? | 23:02 |
| ch | orientation detect is impossible for debug accessories | 23:06 |
| ch | thats a fun idea though, put the second USB D+/- on SBU1/2 | 23:08 |
| hramrach | some devices roll their own special cable that has some protrusions that make it impossible to insert the other way while plain cables can be inserted either way | 23:10 |
| - erle (QUIT: Quit: K-lined) (~erle@user/erle) | 23:12 | |
| ch | shame google doesnt sell or provide specs for these https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/third_party/hdctools/+/HEAD/docs/servo_v4p1.md | 23:16 |
| hramrach | generally it is rumored that Google has a lot of development tools that are only available internally, intentioanlly. And it looks like this is one of those. | 23:33 |
| hramrach | Of course, large part of them is generally useful and could be released to the public but it's extra work that does not bring profits, at least not in a directly visible way. | 23:34 |
| ch | they could at least release the schematics etc | 23:38 |
| hramrach | they could release a lot of things, and choose not to | 23:40 |
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