| josch | mhoye: 25 mm | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| josch | mhoye: source: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/blob/master/ASSEMBLY.md | 00:05 |
| minute | ch: are there any monitors supporting hdmi alt mode? i thought that was quite obscure | 00:19 |
| ch | ah | 00:19 |
| ch | yeah maybe it needs to be DP instead | 00:20 |
| minute | rk3588 can do dp on the hdmi pins alternatively. when the drivers get there we can do it | 00:22 |
| mhoye | josch: thanks | 00:52 |
| - Gooberpatrol_66 (QUIT: Quit: Konversation terminated!) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 02:23 | |
| + Gooberpatrol_66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 02:23 | |
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| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 02:56 | |
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| + jacobk (~quassel@47-186-105-237.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) | 03:00 | |
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| + jn_ (~quassel@user/jn/x-3390946) | 03:13 | |
| + Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 03:16 | |
| - nsc (QUIT: Ping timeout: 245 seconds) (~nicolas@140-97-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 03:19 | |
| + nsc (~nicolas@222-98-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 03:21 | |
| - spew (QUIT: Quit: spew) (~spew@185.153.177.163) | 03:41 | |
| ch | 01:48:28.436 FuEngine Updating Pocket Reform SysCtl 1.0 took 14.394128 seconds \o/ | 03:49 |
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| + sts-q (~sts-q@89.58.73.133) | 04:47 | |
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| + Ar|stote|is (~linx@149.210.16.71) | 05:06 | |
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| + Ar|stote|is (~linx@149.210.16.189) | 05:17 | |
| - Gooberpatrol66 (QUIT: Quit: Konversation terminated!) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 05:42 | |
| + Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 05:42 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 06:25 | |
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| + CandidCadaver (~aloo_shu@85.51.18.254) | 06:52 | |
| minute | ch: woah woah! | 09:09 |
| - Zaba (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (80b9b4b35e@2a03:6000:1812:100::116) | 09:51 | |
| + Zaba_ (80b9b4b35e@2a03:6000:1812:100::116) | 09:51 | |
| * Zaba_ -> Zaba | 09:51 | |
| - sterni_ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~quassel@user/sterni) | 09:52 | |
| + sterni (~quassel@user/sterni) | 09:53 | |
| + gsora (~gsora@user/gsora) | 10:40 | |
| + mjw (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 11:30 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 11:56 | |
| + paperManu (~paperManu@198.16.214.40) | 12:35 | |
| + mjw (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 12:52 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 12:57 | |
| * Guest9622 -> mjw | 13:00 | |
| + gustav28 (~gustav@c-78-82-52-243.bbcust.telenor.se) | 13:02 | |
| ch | minute: i'd like to discuss a few design questions regarding fwupd and the hardware, when would be a good time? | 13:13 |
| ch | minute: or maybe, how do you want to discuss them :) | 13:13 |
| minute | ch: i'm at work now so you can write me here :D | 13:20 |
| - ehmry (QUIT: Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) (~quassel@217.155.30.169) | 13:36 | |
| + ehmry (~quassel@217.155.30.169) | 13:38 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@173.16.175.75) | 14:01 | |
| minute | FYI i just pushed a dts patch to reduce emmc speed on rk3588 a bit because we sometimes see i/o errors during installation here | 14:26 |
| ch | minute: 1) for now i'm using the raspi reset protocol. this is quite simple, and can be discovered by looking for a vendor specific interface named "Reset". if we put code into fwupd, then it imo makes sense to consider if this is a good choice and something you want to keep for future products? | 14:27 |
| ch | minute: and: there is no user confirmation now (and no code signing obviously). not sure if thats good from a security perspective | 14:28 |
| ch | minute: depending on answers on that we can think about reusing the system76 fwupd plugin, or going with what i have now. right now i named that "mnt-pico", but it occured to me that it should probably just be "mnt" (or mntre)? | 14:30 |
| ch | minute: 2) vaguely related: version numbers. fwupd natively supports triplet or quadlet version numbers. i still have to check how that works with having a version in the usb descriptor. anyway the firmware files will need versions... whats your plan there? | 14:31 |
| minute | ch: ok, 1) yes, reset protocol is fine, lets do it and put it everywhere. user confirmation: you still have to run fwupd, right? also, it only uses what's uploaded to LVFS, which can only be done by us/me, right? mntre-rp2040 maybe (pico is ok too, but we don't put a whole pico in there...) we also have legacy non-rp2040 usb devices (atmel), so they would need a different plugin. and we'll have | 14:36 |
| minute | rp2350 in the future. 2) maybe we could do something like 1.isodate to work around this, i.e. 1.20241016 ? | 14:36 |
| minute | wait, triplet, so 1.0.20241016? :D | 14:36 |
| minute | or 2024.10.16 | 14:36 |
| - nsc (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~nicolas@222-98-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 14:37 | |
| + nsc (~nicolas@222-98-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 14:38 | |
| ch | minute: 1) reset protocol: ok, i think then also the pocket-hid should have it too, agree? ; security: fwupd will only update what is on lvfs (or local request), but basically anything that runs and can talk to the usb device can then update it (that might also be non-root!) | 14:45 |
| ch | minute: other vendors seem to have one plugin for all their protocols, so i think mixing protocols should be fine for mntre too | 14:46 |
| ch | (i think system76 uses both uf2 and dfu mode) | 14:46 |
| ch | minute: re version: ok, i'll read up a bit on the usb descriptor revision thing; Q is then still if the version should be generated by the CI pipeline? and dev builds could use 0.0.0 or so? | 14:52 |
| - sir-photch (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~m-hy5poy@static.93.70.235.167.clients.your-server.de) | 15:15 | |
| - ehmry (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~quassel@217.155.30.169) | 15:26 | |
| minute | ch: 1) yes, agreed @ pocket-hid. i need to think more on security, maybe one could work around this on the linux permission level with udev somehow; i.e. lock/unlock access to raw usb interactively somehow | 15:30 |
| minute | ch: cool @ mixing protocols, then it can just be mntre | 15:30 |
| minute | ch: and agreed @ your version proposals | 15:31 |
| ch | minute: just food for thought: the system76 ec requires some form of physical button press. i mean that will be annoying, but probably is secure then. if we want to go that route, we'll need some form of state tracking for that (in firmware and have to be able to query that) | 15:32 |
| minute | ch: ok, we can do that in the keyboard | 15:36 |
| minute | ch: and keyboard can tell sysctl to unlock | 15:36 |
| minute | (over uart) | 15:37 |
| grimmware | Now have two accelerometers in my pocket and they're both working and stable in sysctl so I just have to plumb together the remainder of the userland parts to lid-closed detection now and also add an auto-rotate for book mode :) | 15:40 |
| mhoye | Current Reform Problem: The Do Not Replace Your Trackball With Weird Exotic Materials For No Reason Whatsoever Challenge | 15:41 |
| grimmware | this is also rebuilt on top of the sysctl refactor too <3 | 15:43 |
| grimmware | mhoye: oh what have you been trying! | 15:43 |
| mhoye | Current options include "nonporous alumina ultrahard ceramic", "Silicon Nitride" and "Tungsten Carbide" | 15:45 |
| mhoye | This will not change my computing experience in any way except for _possibly_ causing an airport scanner somewhere to absolutely lose its shit. | 15:46 |
| grimmware | Plz report findings. | 15:53 |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 15:54 | |
| grimmware | I *love* the aesthetic mods that people are doing. | 15:54 |
| + sir-photch (~m-hy5poy@static.93.70.235.167.clients.your-server.de) | 15:55 | |
| - sir-photch (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~m-hy5poy@static.93.70.235.167.clients.your-server.de) | 15:59 | |
| + sir-photch (~m-hy5poy@static.93.70.235.167.clients.your-server.de) | 16:03 | |
| - cow321 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~deflated8@user/meow/deflated8837) | 16:04 | |
| minute | mhoye: nice :D | 16:07 |
| minute | grimmware: nice, i wanted to suggest auto-rotate but you already have it :D | 16:07 |
| mhoye | minute: Man, I've been having problems with my trackball forever, uneven scrolling jank, and finally last night my brain just said, "you dummy, this is your computer and your problem, just fix it." | 16:12 |
| mhoye | So I opened it up, unscrewed the back of the trackball, cleaned it out, polished the sensor and fixed it. Took like 5 minutes. | 16:13 |
| minute | mhoye: haha yesss | 16:13 |
| - mark_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 16:14 | |
| - Gooberpatrol66 (QUIT: Quit: Konversation terminated!) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 16:29 | |
| + Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 16:30 | |
| ch | https://github.com/fwupd/fwupd/commit/d089d8aeeb2b81c3f8223c48fc2f85bcc4a8ec59 "omg" (open source working and getting timely replies 😍 ) | 16:30 |
| + spew (~spew@155.133.15.218) | 16:34 | |
| ch | minute: btw, do you already have an lvfs account? | 16:45 |
| ch | if not https://lvfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/apply.html has the steps, in case you can offload the paperwork :) | 16:45 |
| grimmware | oh my goodness look at all these people doing cool mods and fixes | 16:47 |
| grimmware | mhoye: one of the thermistors on my charger board ended up lifting off and dragging the ground plane trace up with it. I was able to fix it with the tools that I had to hand *mostly* because I knew if I couldn't I could either get a replacement board or fab one, and I was able to get reassurance from minute on carrying out my fix (even though it was really obvious, I just needed to build my confidence) | 16:49 |
| grimmware | I say "ended up" it's almost certainly my fault I just don't know how I managed it | 16:49 |
| minute | ch: yes i have an account | 17:15 |
| + Gooberpatrol_66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 17:15 | |
| - Gooberpatrol66 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 17:16 | |
| midfavila | ngl when it comes to the trackball sensor ive found just blowing on the assembly is usually enough lel | 17:26 |
| midfavila | don't even need to disassemble it nine times out of ten | 17:26 |
| minute | mhm > You agree that the files uploaded have been tested on all applicable hardware to the best of your ability, and no user interaction is required before or after the update has completed | 17:27 |
| minute | midfavila: i also have to do that on my razr mouse's mouse wheel... | 17:27 |
| ch | hmm. wonder what that really means | 17:27 |
| minute | that's interesting > You understand that users with the vendor-specific embargo token will also have access to the firmware in the embargoed state | 17:28 |
| minute | sounds like we can put it in embargo mode but with the token you can test it? | 17:28 |
| ch | sounds logical somehow | 17:28 |
| minute | but there's also a "testing" channel | 17:28 |
| minute | i can upload to private (secret) or embargo currently | 17:29 |
| minute | ch: this looks like this kind of interaction to unlock/lock a device for fw update is ok https://lvfs.readthedocs.io/en/latest/metainfo.html#client-features | 17:31 |
| minute | but also, we need a metainfo xml file | 17:31 |
| Twodisbetter | minute: thank you for the refund, I promise just as soon as the situation remedies itself, I will be back! Keep up the awesome work! | 17:31 |
| ch | minute: right | 17:31 |
| minute | Twodisbetter: thanks, looking forward! | 17:31 |
| ch | there is a simple template/generator in the fwupd source | 17:32 |
| ch | that should work at least for test builds | 17:32 |
| midfavila | minute: huh. weird. is it an optical wheel? must be | 17:39 |
| midfavila | i'm still using an old mechanical trackball on my desktop | 17:40 |
| midfavila | the uhhhhhhhh mousetrak pro or something | 17:40 |
| midfavila | https://www.ergocanada.com/products/mice/itac_mousetrak_professional.html | 17:40 |
| midfavila | yeah baybeeee | 17:40 |
| ch | minute: https://source.mnt.re/reform/pocket-reform/-/merge_requests/21 wip/demo thing for metainfo + cab | 17:48 |
| minute | ch: that was quick | 18:01 |
| ch | already had half of it for testing the fwupd plugin :) | 18:05 |
| + cow321 (~deflated8@user/meow/deflated8837) | 18:12 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 18:19 | |
| - cow321 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~deflated8@user/meow/deflated8837) | 20:15 | |
| mhoye | midfavila: https://ploopy.co/ | 20:31 |
| mhoye | They're the MNT of trackball people. | 20:32 |
| mhoye | One of my idle projects is to figure out how to incorporate their ball-bearing trackball rests into the MNT's bracket. | 20:33 |
| minute | ha, ploopy is launching a trackpad, that's good timing actually https://www.reddit.com/r/ploopy/comments/1g0qmyx/the_ploopy_trackpad_will_be_released_on_october/ | 20:35 |
| minute | because we need a followup to the azoteq stuff which is discontinued | 20:35 |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 20:46 | |
| + cow321 (~deflated8@user/meow/deflated8837) | 20:58 | |
| - Ar|stote|is (QUIT: Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) (~linx@149.210.16.189) | 21:09 | |
| + Ar|stote|is (~linx@149.210.16.189) | 21:11 | |
| * mjw -> Guest3952 | 21:28 | |
| - Guest3952 (QUIT: Killed (calcium.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 21:28 | |
| * mark_ -> mjw | 21:28 | |
| + Guest3952 (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 21:29 | |
| josch | up to five simultaneous touches o0 | 21:35 |
| josch | makes me feel too old XD | 21:35 |
| digitalrane | a yes the penta-click, so convenient | 21:48 |
| josch | back in the day i thought i was cool because my thinkpad had *three* buttons ;) | 22:02 |
| - Gooberpatrol_66 (QUIT: Quit: Konversation terminated!) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 22:05 | |
| + Gooberpatrol_66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 22:06 | |
| - robin (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~robin@user/terpri) | 22:10 | |
| + robin (~robin@user/terpri) | 22:10 | |
| - gustav28 (QUIT: Quit: Quit) (~gustav@c-78-82-52-243.bbcust.telenor.se) | 22:15 | |
| - cow321 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~deflated8@user/meow/deflated8837) | 22:32 | |
| + reform17109 (~michael@h081217090069.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) | 23:10 | |
| reform17109 | I just started my new reform and wanted to say HI to everyone! | 23:12 |
| Scario | Hello! | 23:12 |
| reform17109 | I also would have a small question. I seem to have some light leaks on the border of my screen. Is this something usual, or should I worry that my screen is damaged? | 23:13 |
| - reform17109 (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~michael@h081217090069.dyn.cm.kabsi.at) | 23:17 | |
| midfavila | f r e s h m e a t | 23:17 |
| midfavila | :3 | 23:17 |
| midfavila | mhoye yeah i'm looking at getting one of their trackballs in the future | 23:18 |
| midfavila | i want to default to open hardware wherever possible from now on, or at least stuff that runs as close to totally free as possible | 23:18 |
| midfavila | because like, i'm tired of being stuck with a vendor's kernel from 5 years ago or whatever :v | 23:18 |
| midfavila | or not being able to fix stuff with whatever i've got laying around for that matter | 23:19 |
| midfavila | i've collected a few ancient trackballs and they're so easy to work with compared to modern designs | 23:19 |
| josch | midfavila: i see you've also made your share of these experiences in the past :) | 23:20 |
| midfavila | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/BBC_Master_AIV_%28Domesday_System%29_%281%29.jpg/1280px-BBC_Master_AIV_%28Domesday_System%29_%281%29.jpg | 23:20 |
| midfavila | i had the trackball that the domesday shipped with | 23:20 |
| midfavila | shockingly good | 23:20 |
| midfavila | like, astonishingly | 23:20 |
| midfavila | smoothest trackball i've ever used | 23:20 |
| midfavila | (i'm not that old i just found it on ebay and wired it to a serial port on my pc lel) | 23:21 |
| midfavila | inside it's just a couple magnetometers and a little disk that spins on an axel that the ball sits on | 23:21 |
| midfavila | and some super basic surface-mount PCBs that presumably convert the signals to something the PC can handle. i ran it using gpm in uhhh | 23:22 |
| midfavila | i think just a generic three-button mode | 23:22 |
| midfavila | josch: yeah | 23:24 |
| midfavila | the most startling contrast for me was comparing the original kensington trackballs to the later revisions | 23:24 |
| midfavila | went from a sturdy chassis with four philips, a ball and some buttons and a nice thick PS/2 cable to this wimpy early oughts translucent blue and grey chassis with a rubbery usb cable and a million screws, multiple PCBs with microswitches, and almost zero internal tolerance for anything | 23:26 |
| - Ar|stote|is (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~linx@149.210.16.189) | 23:30 | |
| + Ar|stote|is (~linx@149.210.17.217) | 23:34 | |
| minute | midfavila: did you try the ploopy or their mouse? any good? | 23:55 |
| minute | i'm inclined to order one to test it out ane compare to our stuff | 23:56 |
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