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+ minute (~mntirc@softboy.mntmn.com) | 02:07 | |
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* lithium.libera.chat changed mode (+o, minute) | 02:07 | |
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bkeys | I got mainline Fedora on the Reform with hardware accel and wifi working just fine; although the internal display doesn't light up. I'm working on seeing if I can replicate my setup on here with CentOS Stream since I want something more stable | 02:58 |
---|---|---|
bkeys | I got my notes and have documented what I have done to this point; and when I have it all done I will post it to the Discourse | 02:59 |
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op_4 | minute: what are some of the design goals for the reform next? or maybe this is sketched somewhere? sorry if people ask a bunch | 08:50 |
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 09:02 | |
josch | op_4: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-next :) | 09:06 |
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 09:34 | |
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+ murphnj (~murph@user/murphnj) | 10:14 | |
op_4 | josch: super cool, thanks! | 10:26 |
josch | thank minute who wrote this monster README :D | 10:27 |
op_4 | minute: thanks :D | 10:29 |
op_4 | pocket reform is proving to be a great gateway drug, can't wait to see what the next turns out to be! | 10:29 |
josch | op_4: for more reform next candy also check out their fedi account: https://mastodon.social/@mntmn/112768014231297658 | 10:31 |
op_4 | sweet | 10:31 |
op_4 | ACTION now somewhat regrets jumping the gun and buying a framework | 10:32 |
josch | i guess it depends on what you are looking for in a laptop :) | 10:33 |
josch | i just bought another second hand thinkpad t440 for 200 bucks for a friend because their current thinkpad dies a slow death. We just need to bridge the few months until the Reform Next can become the real new machine. :) | 10:34 |
jn_ | Framework USB slots in a Reform would be kind of cool to have someday | 10:38 |
jn_ | best of both worlds | 10:38 |
op_4 | josch: unfortunately it needs to be able to do $JOB stuff (so slack, zoom, ... ) | 10:39 |
op_4 | which i suppose can be run in a browser, but that's quit the ask for a cpu | 10:39 |
josch | jn_: i'm not familiar with the framework design. Do you mean these orange, green, red and lavender little sticks? | 10:40 |
jn_ | i don't know the colors | 10:40 |
jn_ | slots for these little square modules in the bottom left: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/News/_nc3/Press_Assets_img02.jpg | 10:41 |
op_4 | https://frame.work/nl/en/marketplace/expansion-cards | 10:41 |
jn_ | a Reform might even stack two of them, frameworks are probably too thin for that | 10:41 |
josch | ah okay, what would be the use case? you buy these from framework to stick them into your reform? | 10:42 |
op_4 | or really https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/ExpansionCards here are the specs | 10:42 |
josch | jn_: the reform next is also pretty thin :) | 10:42 |
jn_ | having access to the whole variety of framework modules | 10:42 |
jn_ | that's the use | 10:42 |
josch | jn_: are people creating their own expansion cards? | 10:43 |
jn_ | yes, sometimes | 10:43 |
josch | jn_: do you have a link? | 10:43 |
jn_ | e.g. https://github.com/LeoDJ/FW-EC-DongleHiderPlus | 10:43 |
josch | aha i see | 10:44 |
josch | though those modules might be too big to fit into the reform next with its mechanical keyboard | 10:45 |
- sir-photch (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~m-hy5poy@2a01:4f8:1c1b:4579::1) | 10:45 | |
jn_ | yeah, it's definitely something that would need to go into the mechanical design in order to work well | 10:45 |
+ sir-photch (~m-hy5poy@2a01:4f8:1c1b:4579::1) | 10:47 | |
josch | the DongleHider+ looks very useful -- it's essentially what i do with the free volume in my reform :) | 10:47 |
grimmware | josch: if there's space in the pocket I'm considering stripping back my SDR and putting it in there | 11:20 |
- buckket (QUIT: Quit: buckket) (~buckket@vps.buckket.org) | 11:38 | |
+ buckket (~buckket@vps.buckket.org) | 11:39 | |
minute | jn_: op_4: i don't want to adjust our designs to match another company's product that are not open hardware, especially if the benefit is not clear enough. on reform next, makers will be able to completely customize the whole port farms, not just usb-c adapters | 11:56 |
chartreuse | So I managed to get one of those random lockups while the system was sitting with the screen off. And journalctl -k --boot=-1 doesn't show anything really. The last set of messages is kernel messages about ti_sn_bridge_atomic_disable skipped, _post_disable skipped, and before those imx-dcss 32e00000.display-controll: pixel clock set to 148500kHz... | 11:58 |
chartreuse | And those seem to occur after any screen wakeup, and the last of those happened around 8hr ago, so nothing really useful there | 11:59 |
chartreuse | Whatever seems to happen almost doesn't seem like it happens in linux... | 12:00 |
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 12:00 | |
chartreuse | I guess I should set up a serial console or at least an ssh server so I can see if the linux system is up | 12:00 |
josch | chartreuse: you read about sigrid's experiments the past two nights? | 12:03 |
chartreuse | Sorta, that's why I decided to see if something happens to mine leaving it on till it crashes | 12:04 |
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 12:06 | |
minute | josch: i'm a bit behind on log, do you have a irc log link to those experiments perhaps? | 12:14 |
amospalla | Do your pocket have some screen ghosting? | 12:19 |
josch | minute: i think sigrid's last message concerning those experiments is in the log of 2024-07-09: "I've disabled scu+l2 power down here and will see if it's related in any way" -- this was as part of investigating the random lock-ups during idle of imx8mq observed by swivel who has the reform on idle in the tty (not in sway) | 12:20 |
josch | chartreuse: are your random lock-ups in sway or while idling on a tty? | 12:23 |
chartreuse | I was in sway, with it in swayidle/swaylock with dpms off. | 12:34 |
chartreuse | Now that I have ssh server installed I'll leave it running another few days and if it locks I'll see if it responds, also noted the ip address this time | 12:35 |
josch | chartreuse: when you say "with dpms off" do you mean that your swayidle calls 'output * dpms off' or that you are *not* using any method interacting with dpms but use display brightness instead? | 12:35 |
josch | is https://source.mnt.re/ offline just for me or for everybody else too? | 12:56 |
gsora | waiting for gitlab to boot here | 12:57 |
gsora | now it's completely down | 12:57 |
josch | minute: server maintenance? | 12:58 |
minute | up for me | 12:58 |
minute | probably security update | 12:58 |
gsora | confirming it's up now here | 12:59 |
josch | it's back :D | 12:59 |
josch | that didn't happen to me before | 12:59 |
minute | yes, was a security update | 13:40 |
[tj] | I don't really get the hype of the framework modules (I write this from my framework 13) | 13:41 |
[tj] | 4 usb-c ports would have been fine too | 13:42 |
[tj] | I have 2 usb c, usb a, hdmi, microsd, 1TB, 2 2.5g ethernet | 13:43 |
[tj] | the 1TB storage shipped with a bug where it used 2W constantly | 13:43 |
[tj] | the microsd is terrible to use as it is just a friction fit rather than a push to lock | 13:43 |
[tj] | the ethernet protrude from the laptop so have to be taken out anyway to go anywhere | 13:44 |
[tj] | the hdmi isn't as useful as my usb-c hdmi+usba+ethernet | 13:44 |
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 13:51 | |
minute | [tj]: interesting, thanks for your experience report :3 | 13:51 |
- mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 14:03 | |
+ mtm (~textual@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 14:06 | |
op_4 | [tj]: from my perspective it's not hype, it's a combination of: wanting n standards instead of n+1; not having to carry dongles because they're physically integrated with the device in a uniform way but still exchangeable (in this respect eth is a failure, as it protrudes) | 14:10 |
op_4 | but this doesn't rule out easily exchangeable daughterboards inside the device, that's fine too (and maybe preferable in some situations) | 14:11 |
[tj] | op_4: which modules do you have? | 14:14 |
[tj] | I think before you have this you think "oh that will save me buying dongles", but you just buy dongles in a different format | 14:16 |
amospalla | ; | 14:17 |
Zaba | personally I’m almost never using dongles because most devices have usb-c or I have like usb-c-to-b cables for things | 14:18 |
Zaba | so I don’t see the appeal of being able to swap different ports *inside* the laptop at all | 14:18 |
Zaba | Ethernet is probably the only thing I have a (pretty rarely used) dongle for and it’s too bulky to fit in most laptops anyway | 14:18 |
[tj] | 10G ethernet would be fun, but only for the "ha ha ha this is stupid" factor | 14:19 |
- mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 14:25 | |
gsora | speaking of framework modules, i wonder if the SoCs available for reform can handle all those high-speed USB devices | 14:29 |
gsora | without a huge performance impact | 14:29 |
* Guest5756 -> mjw | 14:31 | |
minute | the hdmi stuff relies on dual-mode usb-c (displayport) which then gets actively converted inside the dongle | 14:32 |
minute | reform next currently has no support for dual-mode usb-c but it could be done later by combining hdmi back into displayport in a different right-side port board | 14:32 |
minute | if there weren't two competing display standards all of this would be much easier... | 14:33 |
gsora | cue in xkcd 927 :^) | 14:34 |
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 14:44 | |
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@45.134.140.153) | 14:47 | |
bkeys | Hi all | 14:47 |
bkeys | So I got a CentOS Stream aarch64 image and I want to try to boot it on the Reform; but when I write the image I need to shift it over a few megabytes so I can put uboot on the front; what is the best method for that? | 14:48 |
bkeys | Yesterday I got Fedora working except the internal display and ethernet, and I want to see if I can replicate the same success with CentOS Stream | 14:48 |
gsora | hmm i think you could cat them into a single image and then write it to the microsd | 14:48 |
josch | bkeys: i'd redo the partition table using parted and then dd the contents of your original partition onto the new (shifted) partition | 14:49 |
bkeys | Okay; I'll just need another drive to flash it onto, I don't want to override my system image SD card or the Fedora one I built yesterday | 14:50 |
bkeys | ACTION found one | 14:50 |
bkeys | josch: So if someone were to brick their emmc; they couldn't just boot from an SD card and fix it? | 14:54 |
josch | bkeys: correct | 14:54 |
josch | bkeys: with a311d you need either a CM4 motherboard thing or a hdmi adapter dongle which gets you usb-boot | 14:55 |
josch | bkeys: i can find the details in the irc logs later if you like | 14:55 |
minute | huh, hadn't heard about LDSA choc keycaps https://kbd.news/LDSA-keycap-profile-1377.html | 14:57 |
minute | but sold out | 14:58 |
bkeys | josch: I do have a cm4 io motherboard | 15:15 |
josch | bkeys: then you should be able to unbrick it! :) | 15:15 |
josch | (though i cannot tell you how -- just what i read other people here on irc say) | 15:16 |
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 15:18 | |
bkeys | Looks like this SD card is dead | 15:22 |
bkeys | Lets go find another one | 15:22 |
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 15:27 | |
- bkeys (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~Thunderbi@45.134.140.153) | 15:29 | |
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@45.134.140.153) | 15:29 | |
bkeys1 | josch: Do I want to create an msdos or gpt partition table? | 15:30 |
bkeys1 | I'm gonna guess gpt cause that's what the raw image had | 15:30 |
josch | bkeys1: for the reform-system-image we use an msdos partition table but i have no personal preference | 15:31 |
* bkeys1 -> bkeys | 15:32 | |
josch | uboot should support either | 15:34 |
bkeys | An error occured with gparted -_- | 15:34 |
bkeys | I wonder if it's just complaining because the partition was shifted left by 5 mb | 15:35 |
bkeys | I'll just do a dd instead of a raw copy from gparted | 15:36 |
bkeys | Well doing a sha1 on both partitions and they are identical | 15:37 |
bkeys | But now it's not letting me just copy/paste the xfs partition used for /boot | 15:37 |
ch | doesnt uboot fit into the reserved space? | 15:41 |
ch | but maybe not | 15:41 |
bkeys | If I try to dd it, the whole partition table gets wiped | 15:43 |
bkeys | Okay so I have the partitions shifted over 5mb and they are identical to how they were initially flashed and the contents all look sane | 15:48 |
bkeys | josch: So what I'm gonna do is dd if=uboot-flash.bin of=/dev/sdc | 15:49 |
bkeys | Right? | 15:49 |
bkeys | sudo dd if=Devel/reform/meson-g12b-bananapi-cm4-mnt-reform2-flash.bin of=/dev/sdb skip=1 seek=1 | 15:49 |
bkeys | I think this is what I run, this is how I installed Fedora on the other SD card | 15:49 |
josch | bkeys: the default block size for dd is 512 so yes, this should work | 15:52 |
bkeys | Well it wrote right over my partition table and gparted doesn't see anything now | 15:52 |
bkeys | But I seem to be able to write like this if I use an msdos partition table? | 15:52 |
josch | i cannot tell you whether this works with gpt because i only used this with msdos | 15:52 |
bkeys | I'll try with msdos then | 15:54 |
ch | maybe you can post a script showing exactly what you're doing and where the files come from | 16:00 |
ch | then we can move off the speculation train a bit | 16:01 |
josch | it helps to exclusively work with /sbin/parted to achieve this instead of using the gui :) | 16:02 |
bkeys | https://paste.centos.org/view/68128498 | 16:04 |
bkeys | This is my notes for Fedora on the Reform, I'm trying to replicate it with CentOS Stream which is more difficult because they don't have prebuilt images like this | 16:05 |
bkeys | In the end I'd like to have a really smooth experience and make it easy for other Reform owners to run RPM based stuff on their Reform | 16:06 |
josch | bkeys: i think you will end up having to patch the Fedora kernel so that things work better and once you are at that point, you need to be able to build the images yourself as well | 16:09 |
bkeys | I agree, but I do not possess the knowledge to build images | 16:10 |
bkeys | In theory, since Fedora works they have kmod SIG which builds fedora flavored kernels for enterprise linux; so CentOS is a possibility as well for those wanting a stable experience | 16:10 |
josch | bkeys: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table indicates that it is a bad idea to write u-boot onto the 512 byte offset :) | 16:10 |
bkeys | I'm using an msdos table | 16:11 |
ch | i'd say it should work, so maybe something got mixed up somewhere | 16:17 |
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 16:29 | |
bkeys | CentOS didn't boot; I'm gonna give up until I get some further guidance from the CentOS Stream people on what to do | 16:48 |
bkeys | In the end they should have live images just like Fedora does. But for now; I'm gonna boot back into my Fedora SD card and see about building the Fedora kernel with the Reform specific patches | 16:49 |
josch | bkeys: apart from patches and device tree, do not forget to enable some kernel options. We needed to add these for Debian: https://paste.debian.net/1323060/ | 16:55 |
bkeys | Where do I put these? | 16:55 |
ch | .config | 16:55 |
josch | bkeys: depends on how fedora is building their kernel | 16:55 |
josch | yes, ultimately .config, but fedora is very likely to have some kernel config management | 16:56 |
bkeys | Will a kernel patch be needed to get the internal display working? | 16:57 |
josch | bkeys: you probably need 0000-v9_20231124_neil_armstrong_drm_meson_add_support_for_mipi_dsi_display.patch | 16:59 |
josch | but i can only read patch descriptions -- minute is the one who knows the details :) | 16:59 |
bkeys | Mind posting a link to the kernel patches? | 16:59 |
bkeys | I can just build a fedora kernel with them | 16:59 |
josch | bkeys: it's all in the reform-debian-packages repo under linux/patches6.9/meson-g12b-bananapi-cm4-mnt-reform2 | 17:00 |
josch | or pick a different patches* directory for a different kernel version | 17:00 |
minute | you basically need all the display related patches to make the display work OK | 17:00 |
bkeys | Okay, if I get a working kernel I'll see about setting up a copr repo so people can easily get it | 17:00 |
bkeys | I'll try to get the build going on my rhel9 aarch64 server since it's got 64GB of RAM and 32 cores | 17:01 |
josch | bkeys: to build the kernel, 3.6 GB of RAM are suffcient :) | 17:02 |
josch | but of course 32 cores help a lot ^^ | 17:02 |
+ mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 17:11 | |
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 17:29 | |
bkeys | I'm building it with just the a311d patches right now | 17:29 |
op_4 | does anyone have any suggestions to reduce ambient power drain on the pocket? seems like it drains about 1.5% ish / hour. I tried adding a 50ms sleep to the core loop of the controller in the shutdown state, but anectodatlly no diff | 19:31 |
op_4 | *ambient when it standby | 19:31 |
minute | op_4: not yet known | 19:33 |
op_4 | minute: thanks, i'll keep poking around in the fw | 19:41 |
minute | op_4: also there are 2x rp2040, the issue could also be in the keyboard | 19:42 |
op_4 | minute: good point, i'll try adding it to both controllers | 19:48 |
op_4 | while we're talking about the keyboard minute looking at my power profiling it seems the leading call is usb_hcd_giveback_urb_bh --- i don't really know what this is about, but is it possible we have some polling/handshaking happening rapidly in the keyboard? | 19:49 |
op_4 | leading call while idle that is | 19:50 |
minute | op_4: it is possible that something is wonky about usb handling yeah | 19:50 |
op_4 | yeah it's being called about 200times/sec and accounts for like 3ms of kernel time every second. Seems high, i don't see this on my other laptop, but really not an expert | 19:52 |
+ gustav28 (~gustav@c-1134524e.019-141-67626730.bbcust.telenor.se) | 20:02 | |
* mjw -> Guest1701 | 20:09 | |
- Guest1701 (QUIT: Killed (tantalum.libera.chat (Nickname regained by services))) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 20:09 | |
* mark_ -> mjw | 20:09 | |
+ Guest1701 (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 20:09 | |
+ vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 20:21 | |
op_4 | minute: the other controller loop has a state machine in it, do you happen to know off-hand which state is power off so that i can add sleeps there? | 20:47 |
op_4 | (also seems t_report is unused?) | 20:50 |
- Gooberpatrol66 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 21:29 | |
bkeys | josch: How long does it usually take to build the kernel on your hardware? | 21:33 |
+ Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 21:57 | |
- eery (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~eery@172.97.103.152) | 22:06 | |
+ eery (~eery@172.97.103.152) | 22:06 | |
josch | bkeys: on the a311d it takes about 3 hours | 22:13 |
josch | bkeys: on the imx8mq it was around 6 hours | 22:13 |
josch | bkeys: the arm build server by MNT takes 50 minutes | 22:13 |
- gustav28 (QUIT: Quit: Quit) (~gustav@c-1134524e.019-141-67626730.bbcust.telenor.se) | 22:15 | |
bkeys | This build I am doing is taking forever it feels like | 22:25 |
josch | bkeys: the Debian kernel build would take four times as much if I had not disabled building debug symbols and some other stuff | 22:26 |
bkeys | Yeah that's my guess is that it must be building it multiple times | 22:26 |
bkeys | Dang it, I included the Reform patches; but don't I also need to do something with the dtb files? | 22:28 |
sigrid | third day (this time idle all the time) without hangs | 22:29 |
sigrid | sounds like this might be working. if that's the case it's setting two bits in a register and I can try setting just one next time and see | 22:29 |
josch | sigrid: nice! that's with 9front or linux? | 22:30 |
sigrid | 9front | 22:30 |
sigrid | it should be easy to produce a fix for linux though | 22:31 |
josch | sigrid: i think minute would like to hear details -- i tried to give a summary earlier today but obviously am the wrong person to talk about this :) | 22:32 |
sigrid | minute: https://ftrv.se/_/imx8mq_gpc_lpcr_a53_ad.png | 22:37 |
sigrid | both of these set to 1, I think the former doesn't matter | 22:37 |
sigrid | the default for the former is 1, but the second one is 0 | 22:38 |
sigrid | the description of the former one is hard to parse for me, I have no idea what they mean | 22:39 |
sigrid | guess it's gonna take more time to figure out whether it actually does anything for real, I am still gonna wait for a week without hangs to say anything more | 22:41 |
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a06:cd00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 22:46 | |
minute | sigrid: did you have random hangs on 9front, and tweaking those bits made them go away, or...? | 22:50 |
sigrid | yes. I started having them again despite wifi module not being connected (which was my first theory on hangs) | 22:50 |
minute | bkeys: dtb should be compatible if the kernel has the patches | 22:50 |
sigrid | now I set those bits and so far for several days I've had none | 22:50 |
minute | sigrid: oh wow ok | 22:51 |
josch | minute: also wow at your service concerning keyboard trace routing :D | 22:52 |
minute | josch: you're welcome, if it works i can send you a v4 rgb version for betatesting and dremeling :D | 22:53 |
minute | i just ordered 10x prepopulated pcbs at jlc (without the actual keyswitches) | 22:53 |
minute | am looking forward to how the rgb action is gonna turn out :D | 22:54 |
josch | minute: can you send me a receipt for that? that'd make me feel less bad drilling holes into things XD | 22:56 |
minute | josch: nah! i'm interested in the trackpoint hacking results | 22:57 |
josch | if you insist, i'd give it a try! | 22:57 |
minute | nice | 22:58 |
josch | finally that bag of 100 choc brown switches in my drawer will see some use it seems ;) | 22:59 |
minute | yesss | 23:50 |
jfred | I wonder if anyone makes kailh choc keycaps with a cutout for a trackpoint or if you'll need to drill out some keycaps too | 23:59 |
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