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| + gustav28 (~gustav@c-2c36524e.019-141-67626730.bbcust.telenor.se) | 10:02 | |
| sir-photch | Twodisbetter https://www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B07MTP9VKX/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1 | 10:09 |
|---|---|---|
| sir-photch | This one is "factory unlocked" | 10:09 |
| josch | sir-photch: where do you see that information in the product description? | 11:10 |
| + f_ (~AUGESOUND@fases/developer/funderscore) | 11:25 | |
| + mjw (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 12:35 | |
| sir-photch | Have a look at the reviews | 13:24 |
| * hl_ -> hl | 13:34 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a08:4200:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 13:39 | |
| minute | z80 open silicon https://github.com/rejunity/z80-open-silicon | 13:51 |
| josch | wow, this is so crazy | 14:03 |
| josch | it's amazing what sort of projects tiny tapeout makes possible! | 14:03 |
| josch | sir-photch: interesting! I must admit I discarded the reviews as the first and longest review reads like being written by an AI. But then through the other review i dicsovered LibreDrive and that term then let me find other resources on the makemkv.com forum and reddit | 14:09 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a08:4200:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 14:12 | |
| minute | it's funny because i recently met matt venn again at hackaday berlin and was like, could we tape out a z80 now? | 14:17 |
| minute | this was before the z80 end-of-life announcement | 14:17 |
| josch | is it just coincidence that this project now exists right after z80 eol or was the eol required somehow for this project to take off? | 14:22 |
| + skipwich (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 14:23 | |
| - Gooberpatrol66 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 14:30 | |
| minute | josch: don't know | 14:32 |
| hramrach | the thing with suspend is that it needs to be prefectly supported by all drivers - any driver has broken PM, and it fails. It's not like it works out of the box on Intel, either. But on intel there are way more users and developers that have any particular chip in their machines. | 14:38 |
| hramrach | And regarding automated wayland UI testing - it's only very recent development that wayland grew remote display other than gromo-specific hack, that's why existing solutions are mostly gnome-specfic hacks. | 14:39 |
| - skipwich (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 14:39 | |
| hramrach | you do not waht to know what the architecture of remodte display terminal server on wayland is /o\ | 14:40 |
| hramrach | it's interesting if you wanted to know about som dark corener cases od the MS RDP protocol but that's the only good point I found. | 14:41 |
| + skipwich (~skipwich@user/skipwich) | 14:42 | |
| Twodisbetter | suspend is important, but hibernation is more important IMHO. I think the iMX8 SOC in the Reform does suspend decently for most. There are exceptions and that sucks, but in general the iMX8 suspends well. HIbernation would be amazing there. I'm looking at the RK3588 though. That is basically a normal laptop chip there in terms of compute and available system memory (RAM). | 14:43 |
| josch | hramrach: my wayland automation-hack via vnc works but is still ugly because i have to hard-code pixel coordinates as without other hacks like gnome mutter, there is no way to query them :( | 14:47 |
| josch | maybe related on the plus-side i had a very good time with using waypipe for starting a GUI application on a remote pc and have the windows displayed localley | 14:48 |
| josch | *locally | 14:48 |
| minute | https://gitlab.com/dogtail/dogtail/ | 14:55 |
| minute | https://gitlab.com/dogtail/dogtail/-/blob/devel/wayland/tests/gtkdemotest.py?ref_type=heads#L31 | 14:57 |
| minute | https://gitlab.com/dogtail/dogtail/-/blob/devel/wayland/examples/gedit-test-utf8-tree-api.py?ref_type=heads#L31 | 14:58 |
| hramrach | josch: there is openQA which uses pixel data matching but IIRC it's written in perl so not particularly useful | 15:01 |
| hramrach | also the problem with pixel data matching is that changing theme, fonts, or even font rendering options breaks the match | 15:02 |
| hramrach | the upside is that the match happens only when the button is actually renderd, and wehre it is rendered so it catches rendering errors | 15:03 |
| hramrach | the matching library is probably this, a perl extension https://github.com/os-autoinst/os-autoinst/tree/master/ppmclibs | 15:09 |
| hramrach | this is the standalone tool using the library, maybe it can be usful for a PoC https://github.com/os-autoinst/os-autoinst/blob/master/imgsearch | 15:12 |
| josch | minute: dogtail gives you impossible pixel coordinates (negative millions) when run under wayland | 15:32 |
| minute | why do you need coordinates? this is something i haven't understood yet | 15:33 |
| minute | in my book, UI testing works like "press the button named X". "does text X appear" etc | 15:34 |
| hramrach | there is the internal part that translates 'button named X' or 'something that looks like a button labeled X' into coordinates so it can be clicked, and that's not available on wayland | 15:36 |
| minute | i believe that's not true? it's supposed to use AT-SPI and inject events on the controls | 15:37 |
| minute | you do know the interactive gtk debugger yes? it works on wayland too | 15:37 |
| hramrach | does GTk4 already suppor AT-SPI? | 15:38 |
| hramrach | seems the support is somewhat complete since 4.14 so generally it should | 15:41 |
| minute | tested it for you: http://dump.mntmn.com/screenshot-2024-04-28-15-41-09.png | 15:41 |
| minute | cc josch | 15:41 |
| minute | that's dump-tree.c from here https://github.com/infapi00/at-spi2-examples/tree/master/c | 15:42 |
| minute | print-focused-selected.c even lets you monitor the application(s) in realtime | 15:43 |
| hramrach | there is python example, too https://github.com/infapi00/at-spi2-examples/tree/master/python-pyatspi2 although it has fewer tools | 15:45 |
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| minute | i think you're supposed to trigger buttons etc by using https://docs.gtk.org/atspi2/method.Action.do_action.html | 15:48 |
| minute | interesting https://github.com/rpbritton/goodnight-mouse/blob/b3aa05ad7f52f4377b3249b1e52430f7c50c1d74/src/app/foreground/executor.c#L123 | 15:51 |
| minute | https://github.com/rpbritton/goodnight-mouse | 15:51 |
| hramrach | sounds like tool needed to use GTK3 applications, the UX with using 'standard' UI deteriorated to the point I avoid the applications as much as possible | 15:53 |
| josch | minute: i have no problems getting the tree that you see | 15:57 |
| josch | minute: i have problems clicking on buttons | 15:57 |
| josch | i couldn't get the negative million coordinates if i would not be able to see the buttons in the tree | 15:58 |
| minute | josch: yeah my assumption is that you're trying to synthesize mouse events | 15:58 |
| minute | josch: atspi_action_do_action does not work for you? | 15:58 |
| hramrach | technically you shoud be able to 'activate' the button using at-spi, regardless of coordinates or it beeing shown on the screen at all | 15:59 |
| minute | that's what i mean | 15:59 |
| josch | minute: i asked @sonny as you suggested and they referred me to https://fedoramagazine.org/automation-through-accessibility/ which explains how automation is made working via gdm and mutter running the session and giving access to the widget positions | 15:59 |
| minute | ugh | 16:00 |
| hramrach | with at-spi alone you do not test that the UI is usable in the 'normal' way | 16:00 |
| josch | more technical details here: https://modehnal.github.io/ | 16:01 |
| hramrach | but it's at least something | 16:01 |
| josch | they are using what they call ponytail which exposes a d-bus api th at dogtail can then use | 16:01 |
| josch | and the ponytail service has to be running in the background | 16:01 |
| josch | as does mutter | 16:01 |
| minute | ok that sounds much more complex than just using atspi directly :| | 16:01 |
| josch | maybe using at-spi directly does work | 16:01 |
| josch | i thought dogtail was using that and that didn't work -- i didn't try running the at-spi commands directly without dogtail | 16:02 |
| josch | <= afk again for a bit | 16:03 |
| minute | josch: i see! | 16:03 |
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| vkoskiv | Wired up a VGA cable for the Amiga, but I don't actually need it - None of my VGA screens support 15kHz, it seems :D | 23:31 |
| vkoskiv | Two display out of range, and my big Sun display makes the amiga magically not boot (flashing power light) | 23:31 |
| sigrid | I bought two (for 500 and 1200) cheap chinese video converter boards and soldered a few wires between that and a vga connector, seemed to do the job | 23:36 |
| sigrid | sadly I don't have those amigas anymore | 23:36 |
| vkoskiv | I did find a random VGA/AV converter box, and this korean website says it supports 15kHz! | 23:40 |
| vkoskiv | It supports double scan conversion (15.75kHz to 31.5kHz), and "Superior video quality" | 23:41 |
| vkoskiv | Which is good. I wouldn't want to watch Amiga demos with inferior video quality. | 23:42 |
| josch | hahaha :D | 23:42 |
| + jacobk (~quassel@2603:8081:2103:e500:a1d9:12a:9347:210a) | 23:48 | |
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