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| minute | happy new year in gmt+1! | 00:13 |
|---|---|---|
| mjw | \o/ | 00:26 |
| + eibachd (~eibachd@2a01:599:304:e4bf:e31d:f394:16a3:9841) | 00:26 | |
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| + nsc (~nicolas@i5E86146A.versanet.de) | 03:46 | |
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| josch | ACTION slept through the whole craziness thanks to really thick windows :) | 06:55 |
| josch | happy 2024 to everybody! \o/ | 06:55 |
| josch | minute: do you think something can be done to allow motherboard 2.5 to charge from the devices that motherboard 2.0 managed to charge from? It seems that it even triggers the surge protection of an external battery pack i have. :( | 06:56 |
| josch | (it works all fine with the AC adapter that came with the reform) | 06:57 |
| - jagtalon (QUIT: Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) (~quassel@user/jagtalon) | 08:20 | |
| + jagtalon (~quassel@user/jagtalon) | 08:20 | |
| - jagtalon (QUIT: Client Quit) (~quassel@user/jagtalon) | 08:21 | |
| + jagtalon (~quassel@user/jagtalon) | 08:21 | |
| - f_estive (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 10:19 | |
| + f_estive (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 10:19 | |
| josch | i'm having a weird problem with gitlab artifacts on source.mnt.re. Depending on the file extension, artifacts in the web interface seem to link to reform.pages.mnt.re: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-system-image/-/jobs/2713/artifacts/browse | 10:35 |
| josch | the content is always the same ("test") so it's probably the extension that is at fault? | 10:35 |
| josch | i also retried the failed reform-system-image job and still get "500 Internal Server Error" at the end: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-system-image/-/jobs/2707 (everything else is successful) | 10:43 |
| josch | minute: i also observed that if a pipeline is run with custom variables, downloads from https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-system-image/-/jobs/artifacts/main/raw/... will include the pipeline with the changed variable. How does the script updating https://mntre.com/reform-debian-repo/ pull artifacts from the gitlab? What URL does it use? I'd like to implement a small mechanism that prevents a tainted | 10:47 |
| josch | main pipeline from showing up in the official repo | 10:47 |
| josch | and what do the different blinking speeds of the orange LED on mainboard 2.5 mean? With the same usb PD adapter it either works or it does not but when it does not, the orange LED blinks but not always at the same frequency | 10:55 |
| + Twodisbetter (2cc0e4ea1c@irc.cheogram.com) | 11:06 | |
| - klardotsh (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~klardotsh@c-67-170-115-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) | 11:46 | |
| * f_estive -> f_ | 12:25 | |
| - romi (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~romi@user/romi) | 12:37 | |
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| + romi (bd30729973@user/romi) | 12:53 | |
| - f_[xmpp] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (fffdb90022@fases/developer/funderscore) | 13:09 | |
| - Twodisbetter (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (2cc0e4ea1c@irc.cheogram.com) | 13:10 | |
| - f_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 13:25 | |
| + f_ (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 13:31 | |
| + Twodisbetter (2cc0e4ea1c@irc.cheogram.com) | 13:48 | |
| - f_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 13:54 | |
| Twodisbetter | josch: I believe it does. When I first switched to higher cap batteries I had the same thing happen. It works itself out while you use it though. Basically drain the batteries all the way down, and then charge. That should calibrate it. | 13:55 |
| + f_ (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 13:58 | |
| minute | josch: there are 2 orange leds next to each other. which one blinks? | 14:00 |
| josch | minute: the one closer to the SoM | 14:02 |
| josch | the other is off | 14:03 |
| Twodisbetter | Happy New Year everyone! | 14:06 |
| Twodisbetter | I hope everyone had a good Rutsch! | 14:06 |
| - f_ (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 14:13 | |
| + f_ (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 14:16 | |
| + mjw (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 14:17 | |
| josch | the other led (the one farther away from the SoM) seems to light up once the batteries are full | 14:24 |
| - grimmware (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.5) (~grimmware@2a03:b0c0:1:d0::efd:d001) | 14:45 | |
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| - f_ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 15:28 | |
| + Twodisbetter (2cc0e4ea1c@irc.cheogram.com) | 15:33 | |
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| + eibachd (~eibachd@2a01:599:307:e3de:a73e:6790:a280:ed0c) | 16:02 | |
| - eibachd (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~eibachd@2a01:599:307:e3de:a73e:6790:a280:ed0c) | 16:10 | |
| + eibachd (~eibachd@p200300dcf7231c00d4f61a1a62dfeb48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 16:11 | |
| minute | josch: ok so the LEDs are CHG_STAT1 and CHG_STAT2 of LTC4020 | 16:16 |
| josch | i have it now powered from the 60 usb-c adapter which usually does not work at all. It seems quite random when it decides to charge and when it does not. :/ | 16:19 |
| josch | the 65 W usb-c adapter works better but also not 100% reliably | 16:20 |
| josch | when i got up tonight, my reform was off with 0% battery | 16:20 |
| josch | *this morning | 16:20 |
| minute | CHG_STAT1 is the one closer to the SOM. CHG_STAT2 is the one closer to the SD card. | 16:20 |
| josch | then CHG_STAT1 is the blinking one | 16:21 |
| minute | josch: ok, i have seen a similar issue with the standard charger and my reform at home. sometimes it doesn't want to charge and goes into this blinking cycle mode | 16:21 |
| minute | this also did not happen to me with mb2.0, so it's a change from 2.0 to 2.5 | 16:21 |
| minute | > | 16:21 |
| minute | If the LTC4020 is configured for a CC/CV charging algo- rithm, the STAT1 pin is pulled low while battery charge currents exceed 10% of the programmed maximum (C/10). The STAT1 pin is also pulled low during NTC faults | 16:21 |
| minute | hmm but that doesn't make a lot of sense: the led glows when the stat1 pin is low, because stat1 provides the ground for the led | 16:22 |
| josch | <= afk for a bit, sorry | 16:23 |
| minute | ok, i'll just write some notes here | 16:24 |
| minute | ah no, the LED makes sense. D8/STAT1 on means: it charges. | 16:30 |
| minute | STAT2 glowing normally means "fault" but for us it just indicates that we have turned off the charger manually via software | 16:32 |
| minute | we do that by manipulating the NTC input, effectively telling the charger that it is too hot to charge now | 16:33 |
| minute | (originally i wanted to use the RNG input for that, but it was determined that it is not working/unstable due to silicon bugs) | 16:33 |
| minute | the charge current should be the same as on mb 2.0, but maybe it was marginal and due to a different sense resistor component it is slightly higher now | 16:40 |
| minute | > RCS = 0.05/ICSMA | 16:40 |
| minute | sense resistor R177 determines the charge current. | 16:40 |
| minute | (via the above formula) | 16:40 |
| minute | R177 is 0.02 ohms. | 16:41 |
| minute | if we solve the formula above for I, we get I = 0.05/0.02 = 2.5 amps | 16:42 |
| minute | ok so in an ideal setting the charge wattage would indeed be 72.6W | 16:43 |
| minute | because 30V*2A = 60W we want more like 2A. | 16:44 |
| minute | so RCS (R177) being 0.025 or 0.3 would probably prevent this issue | 16:44 |
| minute | 0.03 i mean (ohms) | 16:45 |
| minute | we might work around this by cycling the NTC pin with a certain frequency and duty cycle so that the duty cycle is something like 80% (80% of 2.5A = 2A) | 16:47 |
| minute | the remaining question is, which frequency would be enough so that overcurrent protection of the wall adapter is not triggered | 16:48 |
| minute | as we can see the LED blinking with our bare eyes, the freq is not that high, maybe 10hz, 100hz, 1khz would be enough? we also should consider that this doesn't create some kind of EMI problem | 16:49 |
| minute | anyway, these are my thoughts on that issue so far. | 16:50 |
| josch | minute: if you have a patch, i can build a new lpc firmware and see if it makes a difference | 16:50 |
| minute | there is another thing to consider. with the protected battey boards, i think my reform is never really balancing the batteries anymore. this might also only happen if it tries to balance, however i can't see it ever going into balancing state on the state screen in the oled (only "norm" when the issue happens) | 16:52 |
| minute | so it would be good to have a logging tool for the state transitions via spi or uart | 16:53 |
| josch | another idea for a future motherboard revision: have a dip switch or similar to set the maximum charge wattage. I only have 60 W adapters at home and 100 W adapters are quite a bit more clunky. | 16:54 |
| josch | minute: another thing i wonder about: do you consider this a bug? Or is the solution to just use a more beefy PSU? | 17:01 |
| minute | josch: http://dump.mntmn.com/reform2-lpc-charge-duty1.patch | 17:04 |
| josch | uh sweet! | 17:04 |
| josch | thank you! i'll come back to you once i found the time to test this :) | 17:05 |
| minute | josch: this is just an untested idea though! it compiles, but i don't know if it behaves well | 17:05 |
| josch | if it doesn't in the worst case, i just flash the old firmware, right? | 17:05 |
| minute | exactly | 17:05 |
| josch | that's good enough for me :) | 17:05 |
| minute | i wrote this on my pocket reform just now | 17:05 |
| josch | uh nice! :D | 17:05 |
| minute | i can probably try it myself, too... as i should have an usb-c to c cable here | 17:05 |
| josch | but it's a holiday today! :D | 17:06 |
| minute | haha the only annoying part is i need to use a kitchen fork again instead of a screwdriver to open the case | 17:06 |
| josch | XD | 17:06 |
| minute | knife works better i think | 17:07 |
| bluerise | bit off topic but, is there any FW that I should update? haven't updated any since I got the reform a few years ago. got the updated battery board and the new keyb | 17:07 |
| - b0 (QUIT: Quit: adiós) (~b0@leo.uberspace.de) | 17:07 | |
| minute | bluerise: lpc probably | 17:07 |
| minute | bluerise: you have trackpad or trackball? | 17:07 |
| bluerise | trackpad | 17:07 |
| minute | then you don't need to update anything else | 17:08 |
| josch | bluerise: there are some nice quality of life improvements in the keyboard firmware though :) | 17:08 |
| bluerise | josch: I think I already have it, got the new keyboard and updated it with the current one for the reform :D | 17:08 |
| minute | the kbd fw should be recent enough though as it was a recent purchase | 17:08 |
| minute | ah yeah | 17:09 |
| + b0 (~b0@leo.uberspace.de) | 17:09 | |
| minute | we build most stuff just-in-time and use the CI binaries for flashing | 17:09 |
| josch | oh nice to know that the CI artifacts are getting some real use! :) | 17:11 |
| minute | yeah! | 17:11 |
| minute | ok, reflashed my reform using pocket | 17:11 |
| minute | ok, no blinky in my case, but the stat1 led was going a bit darker for a moment | 17:12 |
| minute | that should be the PWM in action | 17:12 |
| josch | thank you! i'll try it myself tonight or tomorrow :) | 17:13 |
| minute | i will use up some battery power now and then try to charge it again | 17:13 |
| bluerise | How do you update the LPC FW? flash.sh does dd to a mounted drive, but that's probably not how it's actually udpated? | 17:17 |
| minute | bluerise: that is how it is done | 17:18 |
| bluerise | so the LPC should show up as USB device? :D | 17:18 |
| minute | bluerise: lpc presents itself as an usb drive | 17:18 |
| minute | bluerise: yep | 17:18 |
| minute | bluerise: this is also mentioned in the manual i think | 17:18 |
| minute | (you have to toggle the lpc programming switch and press lpc reset and then it becomes a usb drive, although with limitations, so you should use the dd command and not access that drive otherwise) | 17:19 |
| minute | (i.e. they made a really flawed implementation of an usb drive) | 17:19 |
| minute | josch: ok there's still an issue with the patch that i have to look into now, it's that lpc now immediately thinks we're fully charged because the charge current is low | 17:22 |
| + f_ (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 17:22 | |
| - f_ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 17:35 | |
| + f_ (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 17:37 | |
| bluerise | where's the best source for the CI artifacts? :D | 17:50 |
| minute | bluerise: https://mntre.com/docs-reform.html > laptop > firmware binaries | 17:51 |
| minute | ugh, 404 | 17:52 |
| minute | why | 17:52 |
| bluerise | :D | 17:52 |
| minute | aha, that link is bad | 17:52 |
| bluerise | guess I can use https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/jobs/2667/artifacts/browse | 17:52 |
| bluerise | last build from master | 17:52 |
| minute | yeah | 17:54 |
| minute | https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/jobs/artifacts/master/browse/reform2-lpc-fw?job=build | 17:54 |
| bluerise | 20_R3 vs 25_R2? I'm sure I don't have the 2.5 board, but do I have the 2.0? | 17:54 |
| minute | i will fix the link | 17:54 |
| minute | bluerise: if you don't have a beta reform, you have 2.0 | 17:54 |
| AbortRetryFail | LTC4020 has silicon bugs that prevent the RNG/SS pin from working to limit charge current? | 18:05 |
| minute | AbortRetryFail: yes | 18:05 |
| minute | AbortRetryFail: it can cause the output voltage regulation to be unstable | 18:05 |
| AbortRetryFail | I need to take the lid off my new radio and see how it does it. It's also got a LTC4020 to charge its internal battery pack, but my USB-C chargers have no problem supplying it. | 18:05 |
| AbortRetryFail | Sadly they didn't publish a schematic. | 18:06 |
| minute | AbortRetryFail: rng/ss is not supposed to be the main limiter of the current. there is a sense resistor (see above) to do that | 18:06 |
| AbortRetryFail | I wanted to try a capacitor on it for the soft-start function, but the Reform does what I need it to do well enough that I'm less motivated to strip it down and solder on the motherboard. :) | 18:07 |
| minute | yeah, i would really not recommend to mess with ltc4020 | 18:07 |
| minute | it can cause a lot of issues, you might get huge voltages and burn out things etc | 18:08 |
| AbortRetryFail | ACTION ain't afraid of huge voltages or burning things >:] | 18:08 |
| minute | AbortRetryFail: sure, but you'll waste many hours of restoring all the burnt out components on the motherboard then | 18:09 |
| minute | (been there) | 18:09 |
| AbortRetryFail | yep | 18:09 |
| AbortRetryFail | iirc, with RNG/SS floating or tied high it's limited by the sense resistor you mentioned and the other components that set the max inductor current, right? | 18:10 |
| AbortRetryFail | anyway, i can help test out the LPC trickery to make it charge slower. | 18:13 |
| josch | minute: okay, then i'll wait until you find time for a better patch. Thank you in advance already! :) | 18:13 |
| minute | AbortRetryFail: correct @ limited by the sense resistor. if you would replace R177 by a higher value, it will charge with less current. | 18:16 |
| minute | AbortRetryFail: for example, 0.04 ohms should half the current | 18:16 |
| AbortRetryFail | I think its the lack of a soft-start that spooks the USB-PD chargers, but I might actually do that for convenience. The Reform already charges scary fast :) | 18:18 |
| josch | ACTION never thought "drats can this thing not charge faster??" -- but that's just my use-case of course :) | 18:23 |
| minute | AbortRetryFail: why do you think it is soft start? | 18:36 |
| AbortRetryFail | because the Reform doesn't *always* pull a lot of current, but if it's powered on and charging at the same time it does so all at once. | 18:36 |
| AbortRetryFail | I'm wondering if starting it slower might be less likely to trip the protection on the chargers. | 18:37 |
| AbortRetryFail | I have a USB-C analyzer, but its bus powered so when the charger shuts off the port, the analyzer dies too. | 18:38 |
| AbortRetryFail | Maybe a DMM with min/max will catch it | 18:39 |
| AbortRetryFail | Interestingly if I put my solar charge controller in between the USB-C 20V and the Reform, it will charge it no problem. | 18:39 |
| - eibachd (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~eibachd@p200300dcf7231c00d4f61a1a62dfeb48.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 19:08 | |
| + eibachd (~eibachd@p200300dcf7231c0097d60ca6e9ee3a01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 19:10 | |
| minute | josch: i rewrote the patch at http://dump.mntmn.com/reform2-lpc-charge-duty1.patch and it charges for me without choking the charger, but i think the sweet spot in terms of toggle speed/delay/duty cycle isn't found yet, i.e. it might charge slower than it could | 19:23 |
| josch | that's super fine for me :) | 19:25 |
| minute | josch: but also i tested this only with the default charger, interested how it behaves with your usb c adapters | 19:28 |
| - f_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 19:36 | |
| + f_ (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 19:43 | |
| - f_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 19:50 | |
| + jacobk (~quassel@47-186-95-57.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) | 19:50 | |
| + f_ (~f_@fases/developer/funderscore) | 19:52 | |
| bluerise | minute: if all goes well I should have a ITX-3588J on Friday, heh | 20:51 |
| minute | bluerise: nice!! | 20:52 |
| minute | bluerise: so far i am working with this module https://en.t-firefly.com/product/core/icore3588q | 20:55 |
| minute | this might be interesting too, but more risky, because soldered in https://en.t-firefly.com/product/core/core3588sg | 20:55 |
| bluerise | Ah, but you mentioned the J? | 20:56 |
| bluerise | I mean, better not to have adapter in adapter I guess :D | 20:56 |
| minute | the devboard i had at congress is this https://en.t-firefly.com/product/industry/aio3588q | 20:58 |
| minute | or this lol https://en.t-firefly.com/product/industry/aio3588jq | 20:58 |
| minute | the naming is a bit confusing | 20:58 |
| bluerise | haha | 20:59 |
| bluerise | I mean in the end most of my work is on another layer anyway, so it doesn't matter which of the cores really | 21:00 |
| minute | ahh > AIO-3588Q (Commercial) AIO-3588MQ (Automotive) AIO-3588JQ (Industrial) | 21:00 |
| minute | different freqs it seems | 21:00 |
| bluerise | I just hope we can have both PCIe slots, and maybe even WiFi on the SoM | 21:00 |
| minute | > RK3588 Up to 2.4GHz RK3588M Up to 2.2GHz RK3588J Up to 1.6GHz | 21:00 |
| bluerise | and MIPI-DSI + DP exchangeable :D | 21:00 |
| bluerise | opened up my old mini itx case with hand-built water-cooling: there's a lot of air in the tubes lol | 21:01 |
| minute | woops | 21:01 |
| bluerise | it's fine, there's no itx board in there (yet) | 21:01 |
| bluerise | https://en.t-firefly.com/product/industry/itx3588j | 21:02 |
| bluerise | https://en.t-firefly.com/product/industry/itx3568jq | 21:02 |
| bluerise | didn't know there are two | 21:02 |
| minute | one is 3568 | 21:04 |
| bluerise | oh yeah I can't read, sorry | 21:05 |
| minute | it is a really confusing lineup. | 21:06 |
| minute | they have 3 form factors of 3588 modules. card edge, mezzanine and BGA | 21:06 |
| minute | i'm currently working with mezzanine one | 21:06 |
| minute | the thing you ordered has card edge | 21:06 |
| minute | not sure if they have an itx that uses the mezzanine one | 21:06 |
| + klardotsh (~klardotsh@c-67-170-115-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) | 21:18 | |
| sevan | alrighty, openzfs 2.2.x has landed in sid, so I can now upgrade my kernel to the latest version. | 21:19 |
| - jacobk (QUIT: Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) (~quassel@47-186-95-57.dlls.tx.frontiernet.net) | 21:22 | |
| - eibachd (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~eibachd@p200300dcf7231c0097d60ca6e9ee3a01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 21:24 | |
| + eibachd (~eibachd@p200300dcf7231c002026752f58af3308.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 21:26 | |
| bluerise | minute: once you have an adapter, I'll get the core I need. until then I'll do more prep with that itx board, most work is on the SoC anyway | 21:32 |
| bluerise | https://blueri.se/luftkuehlung.mp4 | 21:34 |
| bluerise | used to be for my honeycomb lx2k | 21:35 |
| josch | minute: so i built the patched firmware but failed flashing it | 21:51 |
| josch | first hurdle: the instructions at https://mntre.com/reform2/handbook/parts.html#flashing-the-firmware do not mention whether the lpc gets powered via the usb connection or whether power should be supplied via batteries or wall socket instead | 21:52 |
| josch | second hurdle: after attaching the batteries, setting LPCPROG to ON, pressing reset and then attaching the usb cable, I get this in dmesg: https://paste.debian.net/1302717 | 21:53 |
| josch | any ideas? | 21:54 |
| josch | bluerise: lol nice LuKü ;) | 21:54 |
| bluerise | https://hdplex.com/hdplex-fanless-250w-gan-aio-atx-psu.html uh, cute | 22:00 |
| sevan | josch: in the reform-check utility, it highlights that firedecor is not installed, but the package name is reform-firedecor? | 22:20 |
| josch | sevan: fixed in reform-tools 1.34 | 22:24 |
| josch | but that version is still awaiting testing | 22:24 |
| sevan | ah, ok :) | 22:24 |
| sevan | switch to dhcpcd instead of isc-dhcp-client? | 22:24 |
| sevan | :) | 22:24 |
| josch | dhcpcd-base, yes | 22:27 |
| josch | this is being discussed in this thread: https://lists.debian.org/CAPZXPQcuHZ+5q+G+beUUcBAFL=amYy2CY3G9V4q7HbsEKkSiMg@mail.gmail.com | 22:27 |
| sevan | great, I wasn't aware of the thread. reform-check highlighted that the isc client wasn't installed. | 22:28 |
| sevan | ACTION clicks link | 22:28 |
| sevan | great, finally caught up. Now running 6.5.13-1+reform20231212T160504Z1 | 22:55 |
| + pandora (uid585533@id-585533.ilkley.irccloud.com) | 23:29 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0f:8900:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 23:35 | |
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