| - klardotsh (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~klardotsh@64.114.16.30) | 00:22 | |
| nocko | With the release of Debian 12, is it practical to starting thinking about a reform running stable? | 00:45 |
|---|---|---|
| josch | nocko: yes | 00:51 |
| nocko | Probably DIY at this point. Modifying the scripts that build the image? | 00:59 |
| josch | nocko: you are not running Debian on your reform already? | 01:01 |
| nocko | I am, downgrading from sid -> stable isn't a thing. Is it? | 01:01 |
| josch | you would not be downgrading | 01:01 |
| josch | unstable was frozen for several months | 01:02 |
| josch | if you didn't upgrade during the last week, then your packages are not yet newer than they are in stable | 01:02 |
| nocko | Oops. Upgraded yesterday. | 01:04 |
| josch | oh no :( | 01:04 |
| nocko | So the thing to do, would be to have switched out sid for bookworm in the sources... | 01:05 |
| josch | yes | 01:05 |
| nocko | So, sounds like I am out of luck now. Maybe copy over ano older image and try again? | 01:06 |
| josch | the latest image built by ci should still be fine | 01:08 |
| josch | as it was built a week ago | 01:08 |
| vagrantc | it is not impossible to downgrade ... it is still probably not a *ton* of packages | 01:09 |
| vagrantc | but a little tricky | 01:09 |
| josch | it's 84 packages that have newer versions compared to stable on my system | 01:10 |
| vagrantc | depending on what they are ... could go either way | 01:10 |
| josch | nocko: downgrading is technically possible but unsupported -- so if something breaks, you get to keep the pieces | 01:10 |
| josch | nocko: in practice, packages without maintainer scripts should be fine -- those with maintainer scripts might not do the right thing when downgrading | 01:11 |
| josch | vagrantc: not everybody is a Debian expert like you :) | 01:11 |
| josch | since stuff really can break i would not recommend it unless you know what you are doing | 01:12 |
| vagrantc | josch: I'm not even like me sometimes | 01:12 |
| vagrantc | yeah, definitely a more advanced proposal ... but if there was ever a chance to downgrade, shortly after the release would be it | 01:12 |
| nocko | Alright I'll backup my userdata and break everything. Then reinstall from CI. Thanks for the tips. | 01:13 |
| nocko | :) | 01:13 |
| josch | vagrantc: lots of DDs uploaded their packages immediately though. We got new versions of gcc, libreoffice, linux... Lots of important packages got major version bumps. | 01:13 |
| vagrantc | you could also attempt to downgrade individual packages or in small batches to reduce the risks of cascading surprises :) | 01:13 |
| vagrantc | but yeah, either someone experienced ... or as a learning experience with very good backups | 01:14 |
| vagrantc | or all of the above | 01:16 |
| minute | would it make sense to make a debian stable image and archive it? | 01:27 |
| josch | yes | 01:27 |
| josch | and update it on every stable update | 01:27 |
| josch | i'm working on setting up reform.debian.net in similar spirit to raspi.debian.net | 01:28 |
| minute | oh nice! | 01:28 |
| josch | with a GPG signed repository and stable sd-card images | 01:28 |
| minute | awesome | 01:28 |
| vagrantc | nice! | 01:29 |
| JC[m] | what further work is required to install debian stable via d-i? https://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/buster/main/installer-arm64/current/images/netboot/SD-card-images/ | 01:32 |
| JC[m] | Sorry, that link is outdated | 01:33 |
| JC[m] | https://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-arm64/current/images/netboot/SD-card-images/ | 01:33 |
| vagrantc | a patched kernel and bootloader | 01:36 |
| vagrantc | everything else probably would basically work | 01:36 |
| vagrantc | if you're willing to use serial console and your own bootloader ... those images might already work? it has been a while since i've tried | 01:37 |
| JC[m] | Just a thought: what if we log the associated tasks within a project milestone (https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/milestones) | 01:37 |
| vagrantc | it basically comes down to mainline linux kernel support (as you'll always have to bring your own bootloader unless someone reverse engineers some parts of the boot firmware) | 01:38 |
| vagrantc | i definitely recall booting a debian linux kernel earlier on, but some things were not very stable ... not sure how 6.1.x is | 01:39 |
| vagrantc | well, off to non-computery things... | 01:39 |
| vagrantc | ACTION waves | 01:39 |
| - vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 01:39 | |
| JC[m] | thanks for the info | 01:40 |
| JC[m] | hope to see you at teardown again | 01:40 |
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| josch | JC[m]: the Reform is able to load debian-installer from a usb stick just fine with custom u-boot, kernel and modules | 06:23 |
| josch | JC[m]: the problem is at the network hardware detection step. It fails to detect any network hardware which makes the netboot fail of course. | 06:24 |
| josch | manually selecting "fec" doesn't work | 06:24 |
| josch | and while a normal boot at some point says "fec 30be0000.ethernet eth0: registered PHC device 0" there is no such message when the d-i kernel starts | 06:24 |
| josch | vagrant said that this is a typical problem and it's probably a missing regulator module or some other module pseudo-dependency | 06:25 |
| josch | so somebody has to investigate that | 06:27 |
| josch | and my motivation to do that is quite low as long as not all reform patches are upstreamed because until then, any d-i medium for the reform would be a big hack taking lots of time to maintain that i do not have | 06:28 |
| + Boostisbetter (4a410829d7@irc.cheogram.com) | 07:03 | |
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| Boostisbetter | josch: what IDE are you using on your Reform? Also are you triggercompiling via the cli or does the IDE have a hook for that? | 13:29 |
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| minute | we're moving source.mnt.re to hetzner cloud soon, so there might be disruptions | 13:52 |
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| nocko_ | How soon? Currently downloading a system image from CI. Reporting ~30 min. remaining. | 14:08 |
| * nocko_ -> nocko | 14:09 | |
| + sbates (~sbates@user/sbates) | 14:17 | |
| josch | Boostisbetter: vim | 14:23 |
| vkoskiv_ | I switched from vim to helix. The 1st class lsp support is excellent. | 14:24 |
| vkoskiv_ | And it wasn't different enough for me to not adjust pretty quick. | 14:24 |
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| * cwebber`` -> cwebber | 16:13 | |
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| + cwebber (~user@user/cwebber) | 16:14 | |
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| Boostisbetter | Ok, thanks for the info. | 17:02 |
| + klardotsh (~klardotsh@64.114.16.30) | 18:02 | |
| - nsc (QUIT: Server closed connection) (~nicolas@236-98-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 18:17 | |
| + nsc (~nicolas@236-98-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 18:17 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0e:cf00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 18:43 | |
| jfred | josch: To your question from a while back, I've been using the Reform for a few days now with the new thermal paste and I've rarely seen it top 60 degrees C | 19:36 |
| jfred | On an unrelated note... I don't suppose there's a desktop wallpaper lying around anyway with the Reform artwork? (e.g. the art from the operator handbook cover) | 19:38 |
| jfred | would look pretty cool I bet | 19:38 |
| jfred | s/anyway/anywhere/ | 19:38 |
| josch | oh awesome! then this was really just a problem between the SoM and the heatsink -- nice! :) | 19:41 |
| josch | jfred: you are probably looking for ./assets/cover.svg from the reform-handbook git? | 19:43 |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 19:45 | |
| Boostisbetter | That would be a good background picture | 19:50 |
| jfred | Maybe, that'd be vertical I assume since the book cover is? Could adapt it though. (Went to look but is source.mnt.re down or is it just me?) | 19:51 |
| josch | jfred: "we're moving source.mnt.re to hetzner cloud soon, so there might be disruptions" | 19:53 |
| jfred | Oh, unless it's the whole cover as it wraps around, then you'd just need to remove the text on the side I guess | 19:53 |
| jfred | Aha, missed that | 19:53 |
| josch | it's not a whole cover wrapping around | 19:53 |
| josch | front and back are individual images | 19:54 |
| josch | but it's a vector graphic so you can just copypaste them together without loosing quality :) | 19:54 |
| jfred | Aye :) | 19:55 |
| jfred | Would have to get the alignment just right since the lines connect nicely between the front/back | 19:56 |
| jfred | Lunch break is over but I might do that tonight, I bet it'd look cool | 19:56 |
| josch | inkscape can do the alignment by using the snapping functionality | 19:57 |
| jfred | Oh right, forgot it could snap by nodes. Yeah that should make it easy I think | 20:09 |
| jfred | The git server being offline is admittedly helping me resist the urge to just go and do it right now, because I don't have a clone of that repo on my machine :P | 20:12 |
| minute | source.mnt.re is currently undergoing a complicated move | 20:23 |
| minute | but it should be back up real soon :D | 20:23 |
| minute | source.mnt.re is back up, is it working for you? | 21:00 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by mark_!~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org))) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 21:04 | |
| * mark_ -> mjw | 21:04 | |
| + mark_ (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 21:05 | |
| minute | according to benchmarks, the a311d reform should perform quite a bit better than rk3399/pinebook pro | 21:24 |
| - _nrb_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~nrbnrb@2a01:4f8:121:ba:1::29) | 21:28 | |
| + _nrb_ (~nrbnrb@2a01:4f8:172:299c:1::29) | 21:31 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-130-101.cust.tzulo.com) | 21:37 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-130-101.cust.tzulo.com) | 21:41 | |
| - eery (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~eery@77.137.65.251) | 21:43 | |
| minute | josch: btw i thing i stumbled over sometimes but always forgot: we don't have a deb-src in /etc/sources.list by default | 21:56 |
| minute | there's a flurry of etnaviv activity btw https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests?scope=all&state=all&search=etnaviv | 22:15 |
| - klardotsh (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~klardotsh@64.114.16.30) | 22:23 | |
| + sl (~sl@contrib.inri.net) | 22:37 | |
| + sbates (~sbates@user/sbates) | 22:44 | |
| josch | minute: do you mean to suggest changing something in the default system image wrt deb-src? | 22:46 |
| minute | josch: yes, or is deb-src normally not in the sources on a debian system? | 22:47 |
| josch | by default, deb-src entries are not enabled by debian-installer, no | 22:48 |
| josch | minute: which use-case do you want to cover by enabling it? | 22:48 |
| minute | ah! for building mesa etc i do apt build-dep mesa, for example | 22:49 |
| minute | ok, in the end it won't be necessary for users | 22:49 |
| minute | on pocket/imx8mp, i need to temporarily ship a bleeding-edge mesa again | 22:50 |
| josch | people like you certainly need a deb-src entry :) | 22:50 |
| minute | haha yeah | 22:50 |
| josch | the idea behind not enabling deb-src by default is, that Debian (or in this case you) prevent the user from having to enable deb-src by instead providing pre-built packages on the mirror | 22:53 |
| minute | i see :3 | 22:54 |
| josch | but if you think that reform users should have deb-src enabled by default there is of course also nothing stopping us :) | 22:54 |
| minute | ok, i will think about it some more :3 | 22:55 |
| - sl (QUIT: Quit: Leaving...) (~sl@contrib.inri.net) | 23:32 | |
| + klardotsh (~klardotsh@64.114.16.30) | 23:35 | |
| - sbates (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~sbates@user/sbates) | 23:48 | |
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