- S0rin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 00:19 | |
- sevan (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~sevan@user/venture37) | 00:19 | |
+ S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 00:22 | |
- vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 00:31 | |
josch | minute: how would you say does the a311d compare to the ls1028a? | 00:39 |
---|---|---|
josch | i would like to reply to vagrant if they were still here XD | 00:39 |
+ sevan (~sevan@2001:470:1f1d:1d6:5a55:caff:fe24:ed4) | 00:41 | |
minute | josch: good Q! they are quite different. cpu wise the a311d is of course faster, because it has 4x a73 and 2x a55 cores. it also has a much better gpu. but it has only 4GB ram and only USB2 and only 1x pcie. | 00:50 |
minute | (also the cores are clocked much higher) | 00:51 |
minute | the ls1028a has better i/o, much more memory and capability to run a pcie gpu. but it has a bunch less compute power | 00:52 |
minute | the a311d also has a bootloader blob | 00:52 |
minute | i think closed code in tf-a even | 00:52 |
minute | if i understood correctly, the linux-amlogic people are working on an alternative to it though | 00:53 |
josch | can't wait to try out my ls1028a :) | 00:54 |
- nottheoilrig (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~nottheoil@198-48-158-226.cpe.pppoe.ca) | 00:55 | |
minute | oh yeah! i'm waiting for a tiny fix from rbz | 00:55 |
minute | we've also started working on a 19 inch case (1U) | 00:55 |
minute | with ls1028a that can be a blob-free server/appliance for people who are into RYF | 00:56 |
josch | i've read that -- how many reforms fit inside a 1U volume? :D | 00:56 |
minute | josch: i think maybe 4, but we'll start with 1 | 00:56 |
minute | with a pocket motherboard of course more :D | 00:57 |
minute | another idea is to put a few different configurations in a datacenter and give developers remote access | 00:57 |
minute | then you don't need to have a ton of laptops or modules to test the different variants | 00:58 |
josch | are you actually going for the official fsf ryf certification with the ls1028a? | 00:59 |
minute | josch: yeah | 01:00 |
josch | interesting -- i hope that generates more customers | 01:01 |
minute | not because i believe in it but because it's a niche | 01:01 |
josch | i always wondered whether those people online asking for ryf hardware are just loud or actually put their money into those devices | 01:01 |
minute | yeah, we'll test that :3 | 01:02 |
josch | hehe :) | 01:02 |
minute | personally i am more interested in performance and am ok with firmware blobs, as long as they're not mega security relevant | 01:02 |
minute | (i don't want closed source drivers though) | 01:03 |
josch | i'm okay with firmware blobs as long as they are really just loaded into the hardware and do not run in my kernel/userspace | 01:03 |
minute | yeah exactly | 01:03 |
josch | because then the closed firmware is really not much different to the chips themselves being closed design | 01:03 |
minute | correct, that is also my view | 01:04 |
josch | (after all, the chips could also just embed those firmware making it non-updatable but that wouldn't make them more free) | 01:04 |
minute | ideally everything would be open silicon but it is currently not attainable | 01:04 |
josch | yup | 01:04 |
josch | until then i rather have a working computer :) | 01:05 |
minute | i will be at an open silicon conference in july in paris though | 01:05 |
minute | yeah, exactly. step by step :D | 01:05 |
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+ mark_ (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 01:40 | |
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+ mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 04:09 | |
+ mtm- (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 04:09 | |
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@205.185.110.104) | 05:44 | |
+ amolith (d1421e166a@nixnet/founder/amolith) | 06:31 | |
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+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@205.185.110.104) | 07:22 | |
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* bkeys1 -> bkeys | 07:23 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 07:34 | |
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+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@205.185.110.104) | 07:41 | |
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* bkeys1 -> bkeys | 07:43 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 07:43 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 07:53 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 08:03 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 08:15 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 08:30 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 08:44 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:01 | |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:20 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:21 | |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:25 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:32 | |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:36 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:43 | |
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0a:e700:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 09:43 | |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:51 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 09:52 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 10:07 | |
gsora | the chips could also just embed those firmware < that's the main counter-argument for ryf hardware | 10:11 |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 10:11 | |
gsora | personally I'm fine with ram training or displayport/hdmi firmware | 10:11 |
gsora | as long as it doesn't touch my private keys | 10:11 |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 10:17 | |
- XYZ_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~XYZ@37-48-24-43.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 10:18 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 10:31 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 10:43 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 10:52 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 11:03 | |
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+ XYZ_ (~XYZ@37-48-33-172.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 11:13 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 11:14 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 11:28 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 11:42 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 11:52 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 11:58 | |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 12:07 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 12:17 | |
minute | v4rke: you are constantly disconnecting/connecting, please fix | 12:20 |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 12:21 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 12:27 | |
Boostisbetter | ahh just sitting in my car working on a project on my lunch with the Reform. I am so looking forward to the Pocket Reform. | 12:29 |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 12:39 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 12:40 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 13:26 | |
* ChanServ changed mode (+o, minute) | 13:28 | |
- minute was kicked by v4rke (v4rke) | 13:28 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 13:37 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 14:01 | |
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+ MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@2001:1c00:2492:e200:561f:c4dd:78fa:8040) | 14:05 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 14:16 | |
* sterni_ -> sterni | 14:21 | |
Boostisbetter | minute: so things are looking good for the pocket's manufacturing run or we still a ways off for that? | 14:26 |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 14:27 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 14:27 | |
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 14:33 | |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 14:41 | |
- mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 14:48 | |
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 14:51 | |
* minute changed mode (+b, *!*@88.135.20.160) | 14:55 | |
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160) | 14:55 | |
minute | Boostisbetter: we haven't got the money yet unfortunately | 14:55 |
minute | CS/mouser are still processing it | 14:55 |
vkoskiv | So they just wire a big lump sum in to the company account? | 14:55 |
minute | yes | 14:56 |
vkoskiv | That must feel funny seeing that go through :D | 14:56 |
minute | well, hasn't happened yet :3 | 14:56 |
vkoskiv | Then you just start sending in parts orders? | 14:56 |
minute | for the imx8mplus modules first, yes | 14:56 |
vkoskiv | Very exciting. | 14:57 |
minute | and displays, hinges, keyswitches... the kind of stuff that is already fixed | 14:57 |
minute | we are doing a final version of case + motherboard | 14:57 |
Boostisbetter | That is awesome! | 15:08 |
* mark_ -> mjw | 15:13 | |
eery | minute: both :D recompiled userland with -Os and GCC LTO and then a kernel with clang -Os LTO (among some other tweaks), I haven't done any benchmarks but some games are running noticably faster | 15:23 |
eery | otoh 7z (for example) is measurably slightly worse | 15:23 |
minute | eery: wow ok | 15:24 |
eery | my theory is it's better to save cache space on the a53 than the performance loss from unaligned code/data | 15:28 |
eery | I tried using a 64kb page size kernel, but the ethernet module panicked on boot, launching a wayland compositor crashed the kernel, and the base memory consumption went from 172 MB -> 400 lol | 15:31 |
+ qbit (~qbit@2602:ff16:3:0:1:3a0:0:1) | 16:02 | |
+ mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 16:09 | |
- buckket (QUIT: Quit: buckket) (~buckket@vps.buckket.org) | 16:12 | |
+ mtm- (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 16:12 | |
+ buckket (~buckket@vps.buckket.org) | 16:13 | |
josch | eery: could you do some benchmarks to have a quantifiable comparison? | 16:19 |
- XYZ_ (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~XYZ@37-48-33-172.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 16:19 | |
josch | eery: it is entirely in the realm of possiblity to recompile some key Debian packages with better gcc options | 16:19 |
+ XYZ_ (~XYZ@37-48-33-172.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 16:21 | |
- eery (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~eery@172.97.103.152) | 16:27 | |
+ eery (~eery@77.137.65.251) | 16:28 | |
eery | josch: sure, I'm working out the best practical benchmarks to try | 16:32 |
- jjbliss (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~jjbliss@1464766-static.elnsmiaa.metronetinc.net) | 16:33 | |
josch | eery: i would be interested in gcc performance (compiling linux for example) and software decoding h264 | 16:45 |
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@205.185.110.104) | 16:48 | |
bkeys | minute: Testing for cm4 seems to be doing really well on mastodon | 16:54 |
Boostisbetter | minute: josch: it looks like the issue causing a crash on 5.12 very rarely when resuming from susepnd is remedied, I tentaviley say now, as I'm approaching 70 successful wakes. | 17:41 |
josch | Boostisbetter: i remember that a few weeks ago you said you still had sometimes crashes when resuming? | 17:44 |
josch | Boostisbetter: or was this from before you using the 5.12 kernel with sysimage-v3 userspace? | 17:44 |
Boostisbetter | the crashes seemed to only happen while i was on v2 with the 5.12 kernel. THere I would see about 20-30 wakes before a crash. | 17:47 |
Boostisbetter | So far it has resumed every single time while on 5.12 using v3 | 17:47 |
+ nottheoilrig (~nottheoil@node-1w7jr9ujcsmbjl4enh4ae1wek.ipv6.telus.net) | 17:54 | |
- nottheoilrig (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~nottheoil@node-1w7jr9ujcsmbjl4enh4ae1wek.ipv6.telus.net) | 18:21 | |
+ andreas-e (~Andreas@2001:861:c4:f2f0::c64) | 18:29 | |
- MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~MajorBisc@2001:1c00:2492:e200:561f:c4dd:78fa:8040) | 18:33 | |
pandora[m] | There is a portable 386 and 8088 computer on aliexpress | 18:37 |
vkoskiv | This one? https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005005542582463.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt | 18:38 |
pandora[m] | Yes | 18:38 |
pandora[m] | So funny | 18:38 |
vkoskiv | Yeah, it's quite interesting | 18:38 |
pandora[m] | I like the 8088 form factor better tho | 18:38 |
sevan | I'm conflicted, on the one hand I'm happy to see such a device as it undermines the 386 compaq laptop for 1000GBP+ ebay sellers | 18:41 |
pandora[m] | Have not seen such expensive models yet | 18:42 |
sevan | on the other hand, can we move on to affordable workstations? (57000GBP for a top spec fruitco machine lol) | 18:43 |
pandora[m] | If the 386 would come in the 8088 form factor I would actually consider one 🙈 | 18:43 |
sevan | :D | 18:43 |
sevan | how about a nice DEC 486 laptop? | 18:43 |
sevan | pandora[m]: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314236796965 | 18:44 |
eery | how bout a SPARC laptop :^) | 18:44 |
sevan | yes please | 18:45 |
sevan | and the alpha one | 18:45 |
sevan | and the hppa one | 18:45 |
eery | lol I think I have the ultrasparc version of the hppa machine, it's truly a cobbled together nightmare | 18:46 |
eery | the power connector is some locking socket designed for aircraft avionics audio | 18:46 |
+ vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 18:47 | |
sigrid | let's get those new age sparc32 cpus on rkx7 then we can have mnt sparcbook reforms | 18:48 |
Boostisbetter | For all who love the 8088 form factor more, there is still HP 200 LXs you can get. They are real handtops. | 18:49 |
Boostisbetter | Run on 2 double A batteries are seriously impressive. They can run Windows 3.0 as well. | 18:49 |
eery | sigrid: this but unironically, I've got an rdi powerlite that's basically a ss5 in a "laptop", I'd love to throw the ss5-on-an-fpga into my reform | 18:50 |
sigrid | oh I was completely serious | 18:51 |
pandora[m] | <sevan> "pandora: https://www.ebay.co.uk..." <- I want a “closed” form factor like a real laptop :D but I will just emulate win3.11 and dos on the pocket once it comes out :D | 18:51 |
eery | Those early 32 bit sparc systems had some impressive disk performance under load, the laptop can actually sustain 20MB/s ... with 1994 drives/controller | 18:53 |
sigrid | 9front still has c compiler for sun sparc, would be nice to get all that reanimated | 18:53 |
eery | and then sun replaced scsi with ide for 64 bit :') | 18:53 |
sevan | sigrid: yes please :) | 18:54 |
+ jjbliss (~jjbliss@1464766-static.elnsmiaa.metronetinc.net) | 18:54 | |
sevan | eery: that's painful on the first gen hardware due to dma bugs in the ide controller. | 18:55 |
sevan | pandora[m]: nice :) | 18:56 |
eery | yeah I've only got the two sparc laptops, one 32 bit, the other basically an ultrasparc i board shoved in a laptop, and the ide interface is awful | 18:56 |
eery | there's probably other problems with the system, but those drives will sometimes just not initialize and need to be power cycled | 18:57 |
eery | also I don't even know if it's the same ide controller as the ultrasparc ii, since it *has* a built-in scsi controller, just uses laptop ide drives | 18:57 |
sevan | fun :) | 18:58 |
eery | Those rs/6000 "thinkpad" powerpc laptops are probably the most ... unusual laptops, those would be fun to emulate on reform | 18:59 |
sevan | ooh, thinkpad 800 | 18:59 |
eery | the ones that have the firmware to support LE OSes like WinNT and Solaris | 19:00 |
eery | no emulators can do that currently | 19:00 |
sevan | they only did one generation of hardware, 2 or 3 models? | 19:00 |
eery | something like that, though I think they got enough firmware upgrades to run up to AIX 4 or something | 19:00 |
eery | would need one to complete a "cursed solaris port" collection -- I've found solaris ports to ppc, ppc64, s/390, alpha, and arm | 19:01 |
sevan | itanium port is unabtanium? :) | 19:03 |
eery | yeah, I don't think that was never taken out of the "trendy idea" stage | 19:04 |
sevan | :D | 19:04 |
eery | I guess we could run solaris natively on the reform though... | 19:04 |
sevan | there's someone working on an arm illumos port I think | 19:05 |
eery | that port (the arm/alpha one) is super bizarre to me, it's very obscure yet a hobbiest ported opensolaris to both alpha (!!!) and arm | 19:05 |
sevan | oh, I don't mean the driveby contribution which never got merged | 19:06 |
sevan | is that even still around or did that get lost when bitbucket ditched mercurial hosting? | 19:06 |
eery | it's still active, or at least has commits as of December IIRC | 19:07 |
sknebel | solaris itanium was weird because sun and intel publicly blamed each other for it not being a thing after being announced | 19:07 |
eery | it'd absolutely never be merged though, it's basically a new OS -- replaced a lot of solaris stuff (make, ld, etc) with GNU | 19:07 |
eery | this was before illumos officially ditched gcc 4 and the old compat stuff I think | 19:08 |
sevan | this is the one I was referring to https://github.com/Toasterson/solarm-devenv | 19:08 |
sevan | sknebel: ah :D | 19:08 |
eery | ah, I was talking about this https://github.com/n-hys/illumos-gate/ which includes arm/risc-v/alpha support | 19:10 |
sevan | ack :) | 19:11 |
eery | oh, I'm dumb -- that's the illumos-gate used in that project | 19:11 |
eery | for some reason I was able to get the kernel to IPL in qemu, but it wouldn't work at all with KVM accel on my reform | 19:12 |
sevan | I saw mention of reform u-boot supporting nvme here a few days ago, would be happy with root on ZoL | 19:14 |
josch | sevan: vagrantc is currently experimenting with upstream u-boot on the reform | 19:19 |
sevan | fantastic :) | 19:20 |
+ bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@205.185.110.104) | 19:34 | |
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* bkeys1 -> bkeys | 19:35 | |
+ mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 19:37 | |
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+ xktr (~xktr@2602:fe3d:c01:10ca:1050:1ace:0:b) | 20:07 | |
Boostisbetter | minute: thank you for the keycaps. Would you be able to say that we will be able to get keycaps for the Pocket Reform one day as well? | 20:17 |
+ nottheoilrig (~nottheoil@node-1w7jr9ujcsmbjl4enh4ae1wek.ipv6.telus.net) | 20:38 | |
- andreas-e (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~Andreas@2001:861:c4:f2f0::c64) | 20:38 | |
- mjw (QUIT: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by mark_!~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org))) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 20:38 | |
* mark_ -> mjw | 20:38 | |
Boostisbetter | josch: If I am running 5.12 on the Reform and apt is telling me that I can remove newer kernels, i should be ignoring that right? apt doesn't know that I am intentionally using an older kernel? | 20:38 |
+ mark_ (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 20:39 | |
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~Thunderbi@205.185.110.104) | 20:40 | |
josch | Boostisbetter: apt should not remove the kernel you are currently running and should warn loudly if you tell it to remove it explicitly | 20:40 |
josch | Boostisbetter: removing newer kernels is fine as long as you don't remove 5.12 :) | 20:40 |
Boostisbetter | yeah, I don't want to remove the most current kernel. I am just using 5.12 until suspend is working on 6.1 | 20:44 |
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@157.201.98.1) | 20:46 | |
minute | Boostisbetter: you mean these? https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-pocket-reform-keycap-set-100-pieces | 21:01 |
Boostisbetter | Genau, I'll be ordering them immediately. Didn't realize you already had them in stock. | 21:02 |
Boostisbetter | oh whoops, no I need them labled. | 21:02 |
minute | ah. | 21:03 |
Boostisbetter | yeah it is for my Penkesu. | 21:04 |
Boostisbetter | The Pocket is going to be a really nice upgrade to that. | 21:04 |
minute | btw, a311d can't run blender yet. geometry shaders are missing in panfrost for g52 | 21:37 |
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Booster[m] | <Boostisbetter> "oh whoops, no I need them labled..." <- Actually, I was able to use the normal key caps I just got and they work perfect! | 22:59 |
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