2023-05-16.log

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- sevan (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~sevan@user/venture37)00:19
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joschminute: how would you say does the a311d compare to the ls1028a?00:39
joschi would like to reply to vagrant if they were still here XD00:39
+ sevan (~sevan@2001:470:1f1d:1d6:5a55:caff:fe24:ed4)00:41
minutejosch: good Q! they are quite different. cpu wise the a311d is of course faster, because it has 4x a73 and 2x a55 cores. it also has a much better gpu. but it has only 4GB ram and only USB2 and only 1x pcie.00:50
minute(also the cores are clocked much higher)00:51
minutethe ls1028a has better i/o, much more memory and capability to run a pcie gpu. but it has a bunch less compute power00:52
minutethe a311d also has a bootloader blob00:52
minutei think closed code in tf-a even00:52
minuteif i understood correctly, the linux-amlogic people are working on an alternative to it though00:53
joschcan't wait to try out my ls1028a :)00:54
- nottheoilrig (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~nottheoil@198-48-158-226.cpe.pppoe.ca)00:55
minuteoh yeah! i'm waiting for a tiny fix from rbz00:55
minutewe've also started working on a 19 inch case (1U)00:55
minutewith ls1028a that can be a blob-free server/appliance for people who are into RYF00:56
joschi've read that -- how many reforms fit inside a 1U volume? :D00:56
minutejosch: i think maybe 4, but we'll start with 100:56
minutewith a pocket motherboard of course more :D00:57
minuteanother idea is to put a few different configurations in a datacenter and give developers remote access 00:57
minutethen you don't need to have a ton of laptops or modules to test the different variants00:58
joschare you actually going for the official fsf ryf certification with the ls1028a?00:59
minutejosch: yeah01:00
joschinteresting -- i hope that generates more customers01:01
minutenot because i believe in it but because it's a niche01:01
joschi always wondered whether those people online asking for ryf hardware are just loud or actually put their money into those devices01:01
minuteyeah, we'll test that :301:02
joschhehe :)01:02
minutepersonally i am more interested in performance and am ok with firmware blobs, as long as they're not mega security relevant01:02
minute(i don't want closed source drivers though)01:03
joschi'm okay with firmware blobs as long as they are really just loaded into the hardware and do not run in my kernel/userspace01:03
minuteyeah exactly 01:03
joschbecause then the closed firmware is really not much different to the chips themselves being closed design01:03
minutecorrect, that is also my view01:04
josch(after all, the chips could also just embed those firmware making it non-updatable but that wouldn't make them more free)01:04
minuteideally everything would be open silicon but it is currently not attainable01:04
joschyup01:04
joschuntil then i rather have a working computer :)01:05
minutei will be at an open silicon conference in july in paris though 01:05
minuteyeah, exactly. step by step :D01:05
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160)10:07
gsorathe chips could also just embed those firmware < that's the main counter-argument for ryf hardware10:11
- v4rke (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~v4rke@88.135.20.160)10:11
gsorapersonally I'm fine with ram training or displayport/hdmi firmware10:11
gsoraas long as it doesn't touch my private keys10:11
+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160)10:17
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minutev4rke: you are constantly disconnecting/connecting, please fix12:20
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+ v4rke (~v4rke@88.135.20.160)12:27
Boostisbetterahh just sitting in my car working on a project on my lunch with the Reform. I am so looking forward to the Pocket Reform. 12:29
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* ChanServ changed mode (+o, minute)13:28
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* sterni_ -> sterni14:21
Boostisbetterminute: so things are looking good for the pocket's manufacturing run or we still a ways off for that? 14:26
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* minute changed mode (+b, *!*@88.135.20.160)14:55
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minuteBoostisbetter: we haven't got the money yet unfortunately14:55
minuteCS/mouser are still processing it14:55
vkoskivSo they just wire a big lump sum in to the company account?14:55
minuteyes14:56
vkoskivThat must feel funny seeing that go through :D14:56
minutewell, hasn't happened yet :314:56
vkoskivThen you just start sending in parts orders?14:56
minutefor the imx8mplus modules first, yes14:56
vkoskivVery exciting.14:57
minuteand displays, hinges, keyswitches... the kind of stuff that is already fixed14:57
minutewe are doing a final version of case + motherboard14:57
BoostisbetterThat is awesome! 15:08
* mark_ -> mjw15:13
eeryminute: both :D recompiled userland with -Os and GCC LTO and then a kernel with clang -Os LTO (among some other tweaks), I haven't done any benchmarks but some games are running noticably faster15:23
eeryotoh 7z (for example) is measurably slightly worse15:23
minuteeery: wow ok15:24
eerymy theory is it's better to save cache space on the a53 than the performance loss from unaligned code/data15:28
eeryI tried using a 64kb page size kernel, but the ethernet module panicked on boot, launching a wayland compositor crashed the kernel, and the base memory consumption went from 172 MB -> 400 lol15:31
+ qbit (~qbit@2602:ff16:3:0:1:3a0:0:1)16:02
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+ buckket (~buckket@vps.buckket.org)16:13
joscheery: could you do some benchmarks to have a quantifiable comparison?16:19
- XYZ_ (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~XYZ@37-48-33-172.nat.epc.tmcz.cz)16:19
joscheery: it is entirely in the realm of possiblity to recompile some key Debian packages with better gcc options16:19
+ XYZ_ (~XYZ@37-48-33-172.nat.epc.tmcz.cz)16:21
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+ eery (~eery@77.137.65.251)16:28
eeryjosch: sure, I'm working out the best practical benchmarks to try16:32
- jjbliss (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~jjbliss@1464766-static.elnsmiaa.metronetinc.net)16:33
joscheery: i would be interested in gcc performance (compiling linux for example) and software decoding h26416:45
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@205.185.110.104)16:48
bkeysminute: Testing for cm4 seems to be doing really well on mastodon16:54
Boostisbetterminute: josch: it looks like the issue causing a crash on 5.12 very rarely when resuming from susepnd is remedied, I tentaviley say now, as I'm approaching 70 successful wakes. 17:41
joschBoostisbetter: i remember that a few weeks ago you said you still had sometimes crashes when resuming?17:44
joschBoostisbetter: or was this from before you using the 5.12 kernel with sysimage-v3 userspace?17:44
Boostisbetterthe crashes seemed to only happen while i was on v2 with the 5.12 kernel. THere I would see about 20-30 wakes before a crash. 17:47
BoostisbetterSo far it has resumed every single time while on 5.12 using v317:47
+ nottheoilrig (~nottheoil@node-1w7jr9ujcsmbjl4enh4ae1wek.ipv6.telus.net)17:54
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+ andreas-e (~Andreas@2001:861:c4:f2f0::c64)18:29
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pandora[m]There is a portable 386 and 8088 computer on aliexpress18:37
vkoskivThis one? https://www.aliexpress.us/item/1005005542582463.html?gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt18:38
pandora[m]Yes18:38
pandora[m]So funny18:38
vkoskivYeah, it's quite interesting18:38
pandora[m]I like the 8088 form factor better tho18:38
sevanI'm conflicted, on the one hand I'm happy to see such a device as it undermines the 386 compaq laptop for 1000GBP+ ebay sellers18:41
pandora[m]Have not seen such expensive models yet18:42
sevanon the other hand, can we move on to affordable workstations? (57000GBP for a top spec fruitco machine lol)18:43
pandora[m]If the 386 would come in the 8088 form factor I would actually consider one 🙈18:43
sevan:D18:43
sevanhow about a nice DEC 486 laptop?18:43
sevanpandora[m]: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/31423679696518:44
eeryhow bout a SPARC laptop :^)18:44
sevanyes please18:45
sevanand the alpha one18:45
sevanand the hppa one18:45
eerylol I think I have the ultrasparc version of the hppa machine, it's truly a cobbled together nightmare18:46
eerythe power connector is some locking socket designed for aircraft avionics audio18:46
+ vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50)18:47
sigridlet's get those new age sparc32 cpus on rkx7 then we can have mnt sparcbook reforms18:48
BoostisbetterFor all who love the 8088 form factor more, there is still HP 200 LXs you can get. They are real handtops. 18:49
BoostisbetterRun on 2 double A batteries are seriously impressive. They can run Windows 3.0 as well. 18:49
eerysigrid: this but unironically, I've got an rdi powerlite that's basically a ss5 in a "laptop", I'd love to throw the ss5-on-an-fpga into my reform18:50
sigridoh I was completely serious18:51
pandora[m]<sevan> "pandora: https://www.ebay.co.uk..." <- I want a “closed” form factor like a real laptop :D  but I will just emulate win3.11 and dos on the pocket once it comes out :D18:51
eeryThose early 32 bit sparc systems had some impressive disk performance under load, the laptop can actually sustain 20MB/s ... with 1994 drives/controller18:53
sigrid9front still has c compiler for sun sparc, would be nice to get all that reanimated18:53
eeryand then sun replaced scsi with ide for 64 bit :')18:53
sevansigrid: yes please :)18:54
+ jjbliss (~jjbliss@1464766-static.elnsmiaa.metronetinc.net)18:54
sevaneery: that's painful on the first gen hardware due to dma bugs in the ide controller.18:55
sevanpandora[m]: nice :)18:56
eeryyeah I've only got the two sparc laptops, one 32 bit, the other basically an ultrasparc i board shoved in a laptop, and the ide interface is awful18:56
eerythere's probably other problems with the system, but those drives will sometimes just not initialize and need to be power cycled18:57
eeryalso I don't even know if it's the same ide controller as the ultrasparc ii, since it *has* a built-in scsi controller, just uses laptop ide drives18:57
sevanfun :)18:58
eeryThose rs/6000 "thinkpad" powerpc laptops are probably the most ... unusual laptops, those would be fun to emulate on reform18:59
sevanooh, thinkpad 80018:59
eerythe ones that have the firmware to support LE OSes like WinNT and Solaris19:00
eeryno emulators can do that currently19:00
sevanthey only did one generation of hardware, 2 or 3 models?19:00
eerysomething like that, though I think they got enough firmware upgrades to run up to AIX 4 or something19:00
eerywould need one to complete a "cursed solaris port" collection -- I've found solaris ports to ppc, ppc64, s/390, alpha, and arm19:01
sevanitanium port is unabtanium? :)19:03
eeryyeah, I don't think that was never taken out of the "trendy idea" stage19:04
sevan:D19:04
eeryI guess we could run solaris natively on the reform though...19:04
sevanthere's someone working on an arm illumos port I think19:05
eerythat port (the arm/alpha one) is super bizarre to me, it's very obscure yet a hobbiest ported opensolaris to both alpha (!!!) and arm19:05
sevanoh, I don't mean the driveby contribution which never got merged19:06
sevanis that even still around or did that get lost when bitbucket ditched mercurial hosting?19:06
eeryit's still active, or at least has commits as of December IIRC19:07
sknebelsolaris itanium was weird because sun and intel publicly blamed each other for it not being a thing after being announced19:07
eeryit'd absolutely never be merged though, it's basically a new OS -- replaced a lot of solaris stuff (make, ld, etc) with GNU19:07
eerythis was before illumos officially ditched gcc 4 and the old compat stuff I think19:08
sevanthis is the one I was referring to https://github.com/Toasterson/solarm-devenv19:08
sevansknebel: ah :D19:08
eeryah, I was talking about this https://github.com/n-hys/illumos-gate/ which includes arm/risc-v/alpha support19:10
sevanack :)19:11
eeryoh, I'm dumb -- that's the illumos-gate used in that project19:11
eeryfor some reason I was able to get the kernel to IPL in qemu, but it wouldn't work at all with KVM accel on my reform19:12
sevanI saw mention of reform u-boot supporting nvme here a few days ago, would be happy with root on ZoL 19:14
joschsevan: vagrantc is currently experimenting with upstream u-boot on the reform19:19
sevanfantastic :)19:20
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* bkeys1 -> bkeys19:35
+ mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org)19:37
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Boostisbetterminute: thank you for the keycaps. Would you be able to say that we will be able to get keycaps for the Pocket Reform one day as well? 20:17
+ nottheoilrig (~nottheoil@node-1w7jr9ujcsmbjl4enh4ae1wek.ipv6.telus.net)20:38
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- mjw (QUIT: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by mark_!~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org))) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae)20:38
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Boostisbetterjosch: If I am running 5.12 on the Reform and apt is telling me that I can remove newer kernels, i should be ignoring that right? apt doesn't know that I am intentionally using an older kernel?20:38
+ mark_ (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae)20:39
- bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~Thunderbi@205.185.110.104)20:40
joschBoostisbetter: apt should not remove the kernel you are currently running and should warn loudly if you tell it to remove it explicitly20:40
joschBoostisbetter: removing newer kernels is fine as long as you don't remove 5.12 :)20:40
Boostisbetteryeah, I don't want to remove the most current kernel. I am just using 5.12 until suspend is working on 6.120:44
+ bkeys (~Thunderbi@157.201.98.1)20:46
minuteBoostisbetter: you mean these? https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-pocket-reform-keycap-set-100-pieces21:01
BoostisbetterGenau, I'll be ordering them immediately. Didn't realize you already had them in stock. 21:02
Boostisbetteroh whoops, no I need them labled. 21:02
minuteah.21:03
Boostisbetteryeah it is for my Penkesu. 21:04
BoostisbetterThe Pocket is going to be a really nice upgrade to that. 21:04
minutebtw, a311d can't run blender yet. geometry shaders are missing in panfrost for g5221:37
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Booster[m]<Boostisbetter> "oh whoops, no I need them labled..." <- Actually, I was able to use the normal key caps I just got and they work perfect! 22:59

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