| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 00:55 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 01:21 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 02:04 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 04:09 | |
| - XYZ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~XYZ@78-80-113-96.customers.tmcz.cz) | 04:11 | |
| + reform19428 (~junger@68.205.232.182) | 04:30 | |
| - reform19428 (PART: !!unknown attribute: msg!!) (~junger@68.205.232.182) | 04:30 | |
| + murphnj (~murph@user/murphnj) | 04:54 | |
| murphnj | I'm sitting on the Crowdsupply page, and having thoughts about pulling the lever to back it. I have some misgivings..... | 04:55 |
|---|---|---|
| vagrantc | if you want an interesting hobby project and you can afford it, it is probably a good move ... if you want something that just works out-of-the-box all the time ... it might be less rewarding ... at least, that's my take | 04:58 |
| vagrantc | definitely a get-your-hands-dirty and make-it-your-own kind of thing | 04:58 |
| murphnj | I'm just worried that I'm backing another no-show. I still have an eoma-86 in my crowdsupply profile. | 04:59 |
| vagrantc | though probably over time it will likely improve the out-of-the-box experience ... but there are almost surely some rough edges | 04:59 |
| murphnj | I'm a pretty experienced Linux user, so a few rough spots doesn't scare me off. | 05:00 |
| vagrantc | murphnj: hah. me too with eoma-86. they have actually delivered a few hundred mnt/reform2 laptops and various addon parts and keyboards and whatnot | 05:00 |
| murphnj | Yeah, I follow on Mastodon, it's just tough to try again. | 05:01 |
| vagrantc | so, the mnt/reform folks seem more able to make judgement calls necessary to get things done and out the door even if not perfect | 05:01 |
| murphnj | I'm going to stop tonight, I still have two weeks to decide. | 05:01 |
| murphnj | I'll sleep on it. | 05:02 |
| vagrantc | good plan. :) | 05:02 |
| vagrantc | (and the mnt/reform stuff generally seems fixable in the field) | 05:02 |
| vagrantc | i'm still sitting on some minor hardware tweaks i haven't yet installed in mine | 05:03 |
| vagrantc | but i have the parts! | 05:03 |
| murphnj | It really seems well-designed and nicely put together. I'll think on it, but I'm leaning toward getting it. I need a small portable machine, and I want to support independent creators. | 05:03 |
| murphnj | I'm talking about the pocket, in case I didn't make that clear. | 05:03 |
| vagrantc | i speculated, based on what's out there on crowsupply right now :) | 05:04 |
| murphnj | the original is still up there too. | 05:04 |
| vagrantc | i even toyed with the pocket reform at an event ... it's nice like it's bigger sibling :) | 05:06 |
| + murph[m] (~murphhope@2001:470:69fc:105::d564) | 05:07 | |
| - vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 05:44 | |
| josch | murphnj: i'm another (big) reform user and i can agree with what vagrant already told you. It's certainly rough around the egdes but the remaining issues (suspend-to-ram isn't working) are small enough such that the (big) reform has been my only computer for over half a year now. I guess that says something. :) | 05:55 |
| josch | murphnj: i of course cannot tell you 100% whether the pocket will become reality but i also have a history of having backed all kinds of projects, starting with the Openmoko Freerunner more than 10 years ago and I still didn't get my money back for the Dragonbox Pyra or for the Purism Librem 5. The (big) reform is the only open hardware project (for me) that did not turn out to be vaporware and ended up | 05:57 |
| josch | becoming my only computing device. | 05:57 |
| + bgs (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 06:53 | |
| + deadjakk (~deadjakk@68.183.17.6) | 07:24 | |
| - bgs (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 07:59 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@31-23-159.netrun.cytanet.com.cy) | 09:04 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.6) (~MajorBisc@31-23-159.netrun.cytanet.com.cy) | 09:40 | |
| + amospalla (~amospalla@212.231.228.113) | 10:35 | |
| amospalla | Hello, I am in the same boat, dreaming with getting one pocket. A couple of questions, does X11 work well enough as Wayland on a Reform computer? Also, it does not suspend to ram, but does it hibernate? If so, how much does it take to resume? | 10:43 |
| josch | minute: ^ | 10:45 |
| amospalla | The SOC on the pocket is the same as the one on the regular laptop right? | 10:46 |
| josch | amospalla: no, the reform has the imx8mq the pocket has the imx8mplus which comes with wifi, 8 gb ram and some other small upgrades over the imx8mq | 10:47 |
| amospalla | I will move to wayland someday in the future I guess anyway, as everybody suppose will, but everything I've got right now is scripted with X11 in mind. | 10:48 |
| amospalla | Ah thank you. That means they don't necessarily will behave the same way, I guess. | 10:49 |
| josch | amospalla: they are very similar but there are some small differences, yes | 10:49 |
| amospalla | This format (the pocket one) is my dream format, and man it has so many nice things, great input devices, real replaceable batteries, fanless (not only quiet, but no problems with dust or obstructions). These things mean a lot to me. And of course being open. | 11:01 |
| - rafostar[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~rafostarm@2001:470:69fc:105::2:52da) | 11:35 | |
| - kop316[m] (QUIT: Write error: Connection reset by peer) (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088) | 11:35 | |
| - chaseadam (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~chaseadam@2001:470:69fc:105::ca8) | 11:35 | |
| - murph[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murphhope@2001:470:69fc:105::d564) | 11:35 | |
| - c-keen[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~c-keenner@2001:470:69fc:105::2:8760) | 11:35 | |
| - q66[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~q66matrix@2001:470:69fc:105::3104) | 11:35 | |
| - jryans (QUIT: Write error: Connection reset by peer) (~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d) | 11:35 | |
| - pandora[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~pandorami@2001:470:69fc:105::2:b5e8) | 11:35 | |
| - JC[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~jclibremo@2001:470:69fc:105::2:ce68) | 11:35 | |
| - indefini[m] (QUIT: Write error: Connection reset by peer) (~indefinim@2001:470:69fc:105::1e2a) | 11:35 | |
| - qbit_m (QUIT: Write error: Connection reset by peer) (~qbittapen@2001:470:69fc:105::194) | 11:35 | |
| - shaunsingh[m] (QUIT: Write error: Connection reset by peer) (~shaunsing@2001:470:69fc:105::2:6a9b) | 11:35 | |
| - scops (QUIT: Write error: Connection reset by peer) (~scopstchn@2001:470:69fc:105::8da) | 11:35 | |
| + kop316[m] (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088) | 11:38 | |
| - kop316[m] (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088) | 11:39 | |
| + kop316[m] (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088) | 11:40 | |
| - amospalla (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~amospalla@212.231.228.113) | 11:42 | |
| + c-keen[m] (~c-keenner@2001:470:69fc:105::2:8760) | 11:43 | |
| + qbit_m (~qbittapen@2001:470:69fc:105::194) | 11:43 | |
| + q66[m] (~q66matrix@2001:470:69fc:105::3104) | 11:43 | |
| + murph[m] (~murphhope@2001:470:69fc:105::d564) | 11:43 | |
| + scops (~scopstchn@2001:470:69fc:105::8da) | 11:43 | |
| + jryans (~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d) | 11:43 | |
| + amospalla (~amospalla@212.231.228.113) | 11:43 | |
| + pandora[m] (~pandorami@2001:470:69fc:105::2:b5e8) | 11:44 | |
| + indefini[m] (~indefinim@2001:470:69fc:105::1e2a) | 11:44 | |
| + JC[m] (~jclibremo@2001:470:69fc:105::2:ce68) | 11:44 | |
| + rafostar[m] (~rafostarm@2001:470:69fc:105::2:52da) | 11:44 | |
| + shaunsingh[m] (~shaunsing@2001:470:69fc:105::2:6a9b) | 11:44 | |
| + chaseadam (~chaseadam@2001:470:69fc:105::ca8) | 11:44 | |
| minute | it occurs to me that i have never tried Xorg on pocket reform | 11:59 |
| amospalla | I thought that could be an option :) | 12:00 |
| minute | amospalla: running xorg without gpu on framebuffer will certainly work, not sure how well glamor/glx would work | 12:03 |
| minute | amospalla: another option is wrapping xorg in wayland by using cage | 12:03 |
| amospalla | That would mean I just had to move to Wayland. I would have to eventually. | 12:04 |
| minute | amospalla: what kind of scripting do you need on xorg and what wm are you using? | 12:06 |
| amospalla | minute: am linking autorandr with i3 and i3status-rs, xrandr brightness on desktop, redshift for color, and things here and there, but I would migrate if X11 has performance impact. | 12:14 |
| amospalla | also, for some reason, I have not been able to move from rxvt-unicode (and I have tried several times), there is always something to blame on other terminal emulators (mainly related to font spacing). But again, well, I would have to migrate eventually. | 12:16 |
| - chaseadam (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~chaseadam@2001:470:69fc:105::ca8) | 12:17 | |
| - JC[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~jclibremo@2001:470:69fc:105::2:ce68) | 12:17 | |
| - rafostar[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~rafostarm@2001:470:69fc:105::2:52da) | 12:17 | |
| - jryans (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d) | 12:17 | |
| - murph[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~murphhope@2001:470:69fc:105::d564) | 12:17 | |
| - indefini[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~indefinim@2001:470:69fc:105::1e2a) | 12:17 | |
| - shaunsingh[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~shaunsing@2001:470:69fc:105::2:6a9b) | 12:17 | |
| - kop316[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088) | 12:17 | |
| amospalla | Do reform computers hibernate? | 12:17 |
| - q66[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~q66matrix@2001:470:69fc:105::3104) | 12:17 | |
| - c-keen[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~c-keenner@2001:470:69fc:105::2:8760) | 12:17 | |
| - qbit_m (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~qbittapen@2001:470:69fc:105::194) | 12:17 | |
| - pandora[m] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~pandorami@2001:470:69fc:105::2:b5e8) | 12:17 | |
| - scops (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~scopstchn@2001:470:69fc:105::8da) | 12:17 | |
| Boostisbetter | No, currently they do not. Apparently the barrier to getting them to do it is not that high though. | 12:18 |
| Boostisbetter | On, suspended, and off are the currently supported power states. | 12:19 |
| amospalla | Boostisbetter thank you, but if I understood it correctly, it doesn't suspend, does it? | 12:21 |
| - amospalla (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~amospalla@212.231.228.113) | 12:22 | |
| + amospalla (~amospalla@212.231.228.113) | 12:22 | |
| Boostisbetter | No it does suspend. It works about 95% of the time for me. | 12:22 |
| amospalla | oh nice, really nice, thank you :) | 12:22 |
| - buckket (QUIT: Quit: buckket) (~buckket@2a01:4f8:c17:cc5f::1) | 12:23 | |
| + buckket (~buckket@2a01:4f8:c17:cc5f::1) | 12:23 | |
| + scops (~scopstchn@2001:470:69fc:105::8da) | 12:24 | |
| + c-keen[m] (~c-keenner@2001:470:69fc:105::2:8760) | 12:25 | |
| + jryans (~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d) | 12:25 | |
| + indefini[m] (~indefinim@2001:470:69fc:105::1e2a) | 12:29 | |
| + JC[m] (~jclibremo@2001:470:69fc:105::2:ce68) | 12:29 | |
| + pandora[m] (~pandorami@2001:470:69fc:105::2:b5e8) | 12:29 | |
| + shaunsingh[m] (~shaunsing@2001:470:69fc:105::2:6a9b) | 12:29 | |
| + murph[m] (~murphhope@2001:470:69fc:105::d564) | 12:29 | |
| + q66[m] (~q66matrix@2001:470:69fc:105::3104) | 12:29 | |
| + chaseadam (~chaseadam@2001:470:69fc:105::ca8) | 12:29 | |
| + rafostar[m] (~rafostarm@2001:470:69fc:105::2:52da) | 12:29 | |
| * mark_ -> mjw | 12:31 | |
| josch | Boostisbetter: what does "uname -a" show for you? As far as I understood from minute, a recent kernel version broke resume from suspend. | 12:50 |
| Boostisbetter | josch: my reform is kind of messy but I am still using 5.12.* from memory. I can check after work. | 13:09 |
| + qbit_m (~qbittapen@2001:470:69fc:105::194) | 13:12 | |
| josch | yes, somebody has to bisect the kernel to figure out where it breaks | 13:13 |
| josch | i cannot do that because my reform never was able to resume from suspend which seems to be a different issue | 13:13 |
| + kop316[m] (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088) | 13:18 | |
| - kop316[m] (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088) | 13:32 | |
| - qbit_m (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~qbittapen@2001:470:69fc:105::194) | 13:32 | |
| - chaseadam (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~chaseadam@2001:470:69fc:105::ca8) | 13:32 | |
| - shaunsingh[m] (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~shaunsing@2001:470:69fc:105::2:6a9b) | 13:32 | |
| - rafostar[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~rafostarm@2001:470:69fc:105::2:52da) | 13:32 | |
| - pandora[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~pandorami@2001:470:69fc:105::2:b5e8) | 13:32 | |
| - JC[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~jclibremo@2001:470:69fc:105::2:ce68) | 13:32 | |
| - jryans (QUIT: Write error: Connection reset by peer) (~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d) | 13:32 | |
| - indefini[m] (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~indefinim@2001:470:69fc:105::1e2a) | 13:32 | |
| - murph[m] (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~murphhope@2001:470:69fc:105::d564) | 13:32 | |
| - q66[m] (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~q66matrix@2001:470:69fc:105::3104) | 13:32 | |
| - c-keen[m] (QUIT: Write error: Connection reset by peer) (~c-keenner@2001:470:69fc:105::2:8760) | 13:32 | |
| - scops (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~scopstchn@2001:470:69fc:105::8da) | 13:32 | |
| + kop316[m] (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088) | 13:34 | |
| + murph[m] (~murphhope@2001:470:69fc:105::d564) | 13:37 | |
| + c-keen[m] (~c-keenner@2001:470:69fc:105::2:8760) | 13:37 | |
| + qbit_m (~qbittapen@2001:470:69fc:105::194) | 13:37 | |
| + q66[m] (~q66matrix@2001:470:69fc:105::3104) | 13:37 | |
| + scops (~scopstchn@2001:470:69fc:105::8da) | 13:37 | |
| + jryans (~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d) | 13:37 | |
| + indefini[m] (~indefinim@2001:470:69fc:105::1e2a) | 13:37 | |
| + pandora[m] (~pandorami@2001:470:69fc:105::2:b5e8) | 13:37 | |
| + shaunsingh[m] (~shaunsing@2001:470:69fc:105::2:6a9b) | 13:37 | |
| + rafostar[m] (~rafostarm@2001:470:69fc:105::2:52da) | 13:37 | |
| + JC[m] (~jclibremo@2001:470:69fc:105::2:ce68) | 13:37 | |
| + chaseadam (~chaseadam@2001:470:69fc:105::ca8) | 13:37 | |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 13:45 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 14:03 | |
| - mark_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 14:31 | |
| amospalla | One more question guys, what is your experience with coding on a SOC like this? I do currently use Pycharm (which seems to be available for ARM64), and neovim with several linters kicking in all the time as I write. | 15:20 |
| amospalla | I have not checked this, but maybe neovim can be configured to be less aggressive running linters (if needed). | 15:21 |
| pandora[m] | I think vscodium was tested | 15:33 |
| pandora[m] | That is the telemetry and soy free version of vscode | 15:33 |
| pandora[m] | Should run just fine on the reform | 15:34 |
| amospalla | Thank you for your feedback pandora[m] | 15:34 |
| pandora[m] | s/soy/spy/ | 15:34 |
| murphnj | It's probably soy free as well. | 16:01 |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 16:09 | |
| - murphnj (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~murph@user/murphnj) | 16:12 | |
| + mark_ (~mjw@82-217-174-174.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) | 16:27 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 16:41 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 16:44 | |
| amospalla | What is the best supported distro, debian Sid maybe? | 17:44 |
| Boostisbetter | > I think vscodium was tested | 17:46 |
| Boostisbetter | > | 17:46 |
| Boostisbetter | > That is the telemetry and soy free version of vscode | 17:46 |
| Boostisbetter | > | 17:46 |
| Boostisbetter | > Should run just fine on the reform | 17:46 |
| Boostisbetter | It does. Use it nearly everyday. | 17:46 |
| Boostisbetter | > What is the best supported distro, debian Sid maybe? | 17:47 |
| Boostisbetter | Yes, at least I think. I think something like PureOS should run on it as well. But there have been a lot of other OSes as well. | 17:47 |
| amospalla | I mean, the easiest way to enjoy patches from mnt for the most smooth operation. Not that I am afraid of patching things, but I want to be productive the most. | 17:57 |
| amospalla | Nice to hear vscodium works well for everyday usage. | 17:58 |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@31-23-159.netrun.cytanet.com.cy) | 18:12 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Client Quit) (~MajorBisc@31-23-159.netrun.cytanet.com.cy) | 18:13 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@31-23-159.netrun.cytanet.com.cy) | 18:13 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~MajorBisc@31-23-159.netrun.cytanet.com.cy) | 18:24 | |
| - mark_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~mjw@82-217-174-174.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) | 18:41 | |
| + mark_ (~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 18:48 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by mark_!~mjw@gnu.wildebeest.org))) (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 18:49 | |
| * mark_ -> mjw | 18:49 | |
| + mark_ (~mjw@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 18:50 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@31-23-159.netrun.cytanet.com.cy) | 19:21 | |
| + ajr (~ajr@user/ajr) | 19:38 | |
| minute | josch: wdisplays on current reform system image is broken for me btw (on a fresh system). No provider of glFenceSync found. it appears to require GL 3+ now. so we need to ship something else | 19:51 |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.6) (~MajorBisc@31-23-159.netrun.cytanet.com.cy) | 20:11 | |
| - amospalla (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~amospalla@212.231.228.113) | 20:41 | |
| bkeys | Boostisbetter: I use eclipse and I can do everything with it that I did with vscodium | 20:46 |
| minute | what's the name of that newish gui wizard that pops up on current debian/gnome desktops on first boot? | 21:00 |
| minute | that lets you select some onboarding options | 21:00 |
| Boostisbetter | bkeys, yeah I've used Eclipse as well. I thought it was kind of slow, but that is relative. | 21:07 |
| bkeys | Yeah, it's livable but a bit slow. I'm on A53's as well, but I imagine once I get my ppc64le workstation back it will be just fine | 21:08 |
| bkeys | I just got sick of MS's clutches | 21:08 |
| + amospalla (~amospalla@212.231.228.113) | 21:54 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 22:22 | |
| + XYZ (~XYZ@37-48-11-244.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 23:22 | |
| - sevan (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~sevan@user/venture37) | 23:41 | |
| + sevan (~sevan@2001:470:1f1d:1d6:5a55:caff:fe24:ed4) | 23:43 | |
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