| - iank (QUIT: Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb2+b1 - https://znc.in) (~iank@fsf/staff/iank) | 00:07 | |
| - ajr (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~ajr@user/ajr) | 00:25 | |
| minute | technicalities! https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/pocket-reform/updates/a-technical-walkthrough | 00:35 |
|---|---|---|
| bkeys | minute: Congrats on getting the pocket reform launched | 00:36 |
| bkeys | My best friend is really interested in it because he likes small laptops; but he doesn't want to wait that long. I always tell him to just bite the bullet | 00:37 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~chomwitt@ppp-94-67-191-224.home.otenet.gr) | 00:37 | |
| minute | bkeys: thanks!! | 00:40 |
| bkeys | Are there any updates on further adapter boards for the Reform? | 00:41 |
| - murdock (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 01:02 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 01:02 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 01:03 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 01:03 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 01:03 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 01:05 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 01:06 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~wielaard@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 01:29 | |
| minute | chartreuse: ha, noticed by your RT that my link was broken. tweeted again | 01:55 |
| chartreuse | Saw the correction and retweeted the new one as well | 02:31 |
| chartreuse | What I get for retweeting without checking the link too XD | 02:32 |
| - klardotsh_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~klardotsh@172.56.168.189) | 02:56 | |
| - gnou_liber (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~gnou_libe@223.pool85-50-3.static.orange.es) | 02:59 | |
| chartreuse | Hmm seems like my bottom row control issue is with the keyswitch, if I press it down hard all the way it sometimes doesn't register, need to see if some gunk has gotten into it or if it's deffective and wore out early | 03:01 |
| chartreuse | Might have been keycap binding related or something, can't seem to trigger the issue now with the cap removed | 03:02 |
| chartreuse | Or just worked whatever dirt was loose I guess... | 03:03 |
| + gnou_liber (~gnou_libe@223.pool85-50-3.static.orange.es) | 03:06 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 03:08 | |
| + klardotsh (~klardotsh@172.56.168.189) | 03:41 | |
| - Guest319 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~nicolas@241-49-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 03:44 | |
| + nsc (~nicolas@62-97-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 03:45 | |
| * nsc -> Guest2808 | 03:46 | |
| - Ar|stote|is (QUIT: Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) (~linx@149-210-16-215.mobile.nym.cosmote.net) | 05:03 | |
| + Ar|stote|is (~linx@149-210-16-215.mobile.nym.cosmote.net) | 05:03 | |
| + bgs (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 07:11 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a19:3600:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 07:15 | |
| josch | c-keen[m]: what does this command print on your system: | 07:37 |
| josch | apt-get indextargets 'Created-By: Packages' 'Repo-URI: https://mntre.com/reform-debian-repo/' --format '$(RELEASE)' | 07:37 |
| - bgs (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 08:22 | |
| - rblanco (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~rblanco@138.68.88.58) | 08:44 | |
| - XYZ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~XYZ@37-48-16-26.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 09:38 | |
| + XYZ (~XYZ@78-80-123-30.customers.tmcz.cz) | 09:40 | |
| - XYZ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~XYZ@78-80-123-30.customers.tmcz.cz) | 09:55 | |
| Boostisbetter | minute, excellent write up regarding the technical side of how the Pocket works. I am really looking forward to getting a Pocket. October feels like a really long ways away though. | 09:56 |
| + XYZ (~XYZ@78-80-123-30.customers.tmcz.cz) | 09:57 | |
| minute | Boostisbetter: thanks! october will be here in no time, unfortunately :D | 10:01 |
| * wielaard -> mjw | 10:05 | |
| gsora | thanks for the technical walk through! | 10:09 |
| - XYZ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~XYZ@78-80-123-30.customers.tmcz.cz) | 10:56 | |
| + XYZ (~XYZ@89-24-34-108.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 11:07 | |
| * Guest2808 -> nsc | 11:08 | |
| - XYZ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~XYZ@89-24-34-108.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 11:43 | |
| + XYZ89 (~XYZ@89-24-34-108.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 11:43 | |
| + kantana (~kantana@2409:4042:2b93:e8a9:237:2a70:af4e:54b5) | 11:44 | |
| - XYZ89 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~XYZ@89-24-34-108.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 11:57 | |
| + XYZ (~XYZ@37-48-10-0.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 12:12 | |
| - kantana (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~kantana@2409:4042:2b93:e8a9:237:2a70:af4e:54b5) | 12:21 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 12:46 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@mobile-166-171-186-143.mycingular.net) | 12:47 | |
| - cwebber (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~user@user/cwebber) | 12:56 | |
| - XYZ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~XYZ@37-48-10-0.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 12:58 | |
| + XYZ (~XYZ@37-48-10-0.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 12:59 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 13:04 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murdock@mobile-166-171-186-143.mycingular.net) | 13:09 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 13:10 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 13:14 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@mobile-166-171-186-143.mycingular.net) | 13:15 | |
| - gnou_liber (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~gnou_libe@223.pool85-50-3.static.orange.es) | 13:32 | |
| + gnou_liber (~gnou_libe@223.pool85-50-3.static.orange.es) | 13:35 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murdock@mobile-166-171-186-143.mycingular.net) | 13:37 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@50.234.255.130) | 13:38 | |
| mjw | pocket-reform, 176 backers and 136% funded, still increasing, even if just with 1 or 2 percent a day. | 14:29 |
| kop316[m] | mjw: What I have anecdotally seen is crowd funded things have two times there are a lot of increases, the start and the finish. So I wouldn't be surprised if at the end, there are a lot more folks who sign up. | 14:33 |
| Boostisbetter | yeah I hope it continues and that MNT sees more success in general. I personally hope to one day get an x86 based system in the Reform or the Pocket. That would be perfect for me. | 14:35 |
| gsora | i believe apple unironically helped with the whole arm-on-real-computers movement | 14:46 |
| gsora | i hope we'll see competition from PC brands now though | 14:46 |
| josch | personally, the only things i'd want x86 cpu for are proprietary games... so... meh... | 14:47 |
| gsora | yeah | 14:48 |
| gsora | i recently built a new AMD system mostly for games, but also because raw power still lays with x86 on the desktop, non-apple front | 14:48 |
| gsora | i would love to see some competitor | 14:48 |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 15:09 | |
| svp | in the last few days i've been fiddling around and managed to run opensuse tumbleweed, and while it required a few compromises/workarounds, a pinch of alien(1) and package freezing i am more than happy to come back to a more familiar userland. i just wish rpm was a bit more standardised, so it'd be trivial to support more distros... | 15:12 |
| sigrid | i did a trace cut but now my trackball stopped working altogether | 15:34 |
| josch | oh no... :( | 15:42 |
| sigrid | have no idea what did i do wrong. i checked again and again - the cut is in the right spot | 15:48 |
| sigrid | and that's the only trace i cut, carefully | 15:48 |
| - conky (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (5fb0fe5593@2604:bf00:561:2000::10b) | 15:48 | |
| - Zaba (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (80b9b4b35e@2604:bf00:561:2000::116) | 15:48 | |
| + conky (5fb0fe5593@2604:bf00:561:2000::10b) | 15:50 | |
| sigrid | old one works so it's not a connector problem | 15:50 |
| sigrid | oh well. | 15:50 |
| + Zaba (80b9b4b35e@2604:bf00:561:2000::116) | 15:51 | |
| gsora | anybody researched 5G mpcie modules? | 15:56 |
| - ec0 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~ec0@vps-446f4f39.vps.ovh.ca) | 16:11 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 16:21 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 16:23 | |
| + ec0 (~ec0@vps-446f4f39.vps.ovh.ca) | 16:23 | |
| - conky (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (5fb0fe5593@2604:bf00:561:2000::10b) | 16:50 | |
| - Zaba (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (80b9b4b35e@2604:bf00:561:2000::116) | 16:50 | |
| + conky (5fb0fe5593@2604:bf00:561:2000::10b) | 16:55 | |
| + Zaba (80b9b4b35e@2604:bf00:561:2000::116) | 16:56 | |
| rah | https://mauromorales.com/2021/05/11/running-mnt-reform-os-on-an-nvme-disk/ | 17:02 |
| rah | is it true that to boot from eMMC you have to take the heatsink off the SoC and flip a DIP switch? | 17:02 |
| rah | I can't find any mention in the Operator Handbook | 17:03 |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50) | 17:08 | |
| rah | nm, apparently it is true https://mntre.com/reform2/handbook/advanced.html#system-boot | 17:12 |
| qbit | rah: https://mntre.com/reform2/handbook/advanced.html#system-boot | 17:12 |
| qbit | heh | 17:12 |
| sevan | shiny https://release.gnome.org/44/ | 17:25 |
| josch | rah: this might be interesting for you as well: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-handbook/-/issues/2 | 17:30 |
| josch | gnome has a setting to invert the mouse wheel scrolling direction? who would use that and why? | 17:32 |
| josch | rah: please do not follow the software-part of https://mauromorales.com/2021/05/11/running-mnt-reform-os-on-an-nvme-disk/ -- it is outdated and wrong | 17:35 |
| josch | rah: since sysimage-v3, there is the reform-setup-encrypted-nvme utility which will do everything for you (even migrating your data) | 17:35 |
| sevan | josch: I was literaly looking at that and wondering about the natural definition. I realise that I've been using the trackpad as such but in my head it's inverted, nothing natural about flicking up to scroll down | 17:36 |
| sevan | 1:1 mapping is natural / literal, in my head | 17:37 |
| josch | oh is this maybe about touch screens? | 17:37 |
| josch | because there you touch and drag a document up to scroll down? | 17:38 |
| sevan | no idea | 17:39 |
| josch | rah: I wanted to leave a comment below the article you linked but only got an error message. If you are interested in what I would've written, I pasted it here: https://paste.debian.net/1274920/ | 17:55 |
| rah | josch: I tried reform-setup-encrypted-nvme and it didn't work | 17:59 |
| josch | rah: please report bugs to me so that i can fix them :) | 18:00 |
| rah | I'm not going to report bugs in these reform-* scripts, they're hacks | 18:03 |
| rah | the bug is that they exist at all | 18:03 |
| josch | rah: what would be your preferred solution? | 18:05 |
| rah | josch: to which problem? | 18:05 |
| josch | rah: i was of the impression that you wanted to set up the reform so that it would boot an encrypted system from nvme | 18:06 |
| rah | josch: that doesn't answer my question | 18:07 |
| josch | rah: what is your question? | 18:07 |
| rah | 17:05 < rah> josch: to which problem? | 18:07 |
| josch | rah: i thought your problem was that reform-setup-encrypted-nvme doesn't work | 18:07 |
| rah | josch: OK, for me the preferred solution is that there is no script like reform-setup-encrypted-nvme | 18:08 |
| - dmorn (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~dmorn@46.234.244.221) | 18:08 | |
| rah | setting up an encrypted drive is not a problem | 18:09 |
| rah | it's a procedure that is well documented and well understood | 18:09 |
| josch | that sounds like there is no problem? | 18:10 |
| rah | there's no problem which reform-setup-encrypted-nvme solves, hence it should not exist | 18:10 |
| + bgs (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 18:10 | |
| josch | rah: you suggest that scripts automating a certain series of steps that can also be typed manually should not exist? | 18:11 |
| rah | yes | 18:11 |
| josch | ah okay | 18:11 |
| JC[m] | I can vouch for the fact that most users, even experienced ones, don't wish to manually type out a known sequence of steps if they can help it | 18:11 |
| rah | let me clarify: brittle scripts which implement well-known procedures in a brittle way that is prone to failure, like reform-setup-encrypted-nvme, should not exist | 18:13 |
| rah | it's not needed | 18:13 |
| josch | well the good news is, that if you don't want to use it but instead type it manually, you are free to do so and ignore the script :) | 18:14 |
| JC[m] | Would you propose that they be migrated elsewhere, such as a wiki, readme, or tutorial, instead? | 18:14 |
| rah | if you really need a script to set up an encrypted block device, reform-setup-encrypted-nvme is the last way it should be done | 18:14 |
| JC[m] | Or just deleted entirely? | 18:14 |
| rah | 17:08 < rah> josch: OK, for me the preferred solution is that there is no script like reform-setup-encrypted-nvme | 18:15 |
| + cwebber (~user@user/cwebber) | 18:15 | |
| JC[m] | I see | 18:15 |
| rah | why would you want to add to your maintenance burden by adding another wiki, readme or tutorial, when that information already exists elsewhere | 18:16 |
| JC[m] | It reduces the burden of multi-source research for MNT users | 18:16 |
| rah | a hyperlink would achieve the same | 18:17 |
| JC[m] | True, most documentation becomes stale and outdated over time | 18:17 |
| JC[m] | That's one reasonable implementation, but it is helpful that relevant information is still aggregated for users of the system, right? | 18:18 |
| mtm | well, I for one am glad to have the scripts. Even if they aren't perfect I can at least take a look at them to get the gist of what needs to happen. | 18:18 |
| rah | JC[m]: depends what you mean by aggregate; it's certainly reasonable to copy third-party resources verbatim and make them available to users locally but I would suggest it's not reasonable to waste time synthesising some new whole | 18:21 |
| josch | rah: simple answer is: this is my hobby and what i do in my free time and what i'm having fun with is up to me. If you do not like the scripts that I release under an OSS license, then you are free to ignore them. But i'm doing this entirely for my own fun and independent on whether others like it or not. I understand that you do not and that's fine. :) | 18:22 |
| JC[m] | I think that one benefit to a script, MNT-specific documentation, whatever, is that it can accomodate any MNT-specific nuances which may deviate from a standard procedure found elsewhere (of course, this is in general terms and not speaking directly to encrypted nvme). The burden of documentation maintenance goes both ways: internal documentation can become stale and require our own resources to keep updated, but it also provides a safety | 18:23 |
| JC[m] | net where MNT can protect itself when external documentation would not work for MNT. | 18:23 |
| JC[m] | ^ Just my opinion :) | 18:24 |
| rah | josch: good for you, I just wish your hobby hacks weren't referred to in the official MNT documentation | 18:24 |
| josch | rah: you have to bring that up with minute then | 18:24 |
| rah | that is, the Operator Handbook | 18:24 |
| + markw (~wielaard@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 18:41 | |
| sevan | the reform-debian-repo is not signed and needs to be marked as trusted in /etc/sources.list, right? | 19:01 |
| sevan | (I'm looking at https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-debian-packages/-/blob/main/build.sh#L90 and just want a sanity check because it's not marked as trusted there) | 19:01 |
| - gnou_liber (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~gnou_libe@223.pool85-50-3.static.orange.es) | 19:04 | |
| + gnou_liber (~gnou_libe@223.pool85-50-3.static.orange.es) | 19:04 | |
| minute | rah: if you don't like the convenience script, you can just deinstall them. | 19:06 |
| minute | rah: as the maintainer i decided to include certain convenience scripts for tasks that people often ask for help (support) with, and work with josch on these. | 19:08 |
| minute | rah: originally, some helper scripts were very reform specific and thus included in the handbook (i.e. to toggle the dtb for single/dual display) | 19:09 |
| minute | rah: "it's not needed" is very subjective. you fail to see that there are people with other needs than your own. | 19:10 |
| rah | minute: I do see that there are people with other needs than my own | 19:16 |
| rah | minute: that there are people with other needs than my own does not negate anything I've said | 19:17 |
| minute | rah: it does. | 19:18 |
| minute | rah: instead of "it's not needed", say "i do not need..." | 19:18 |
| rah | minute: but it's not needed, even by people with needs other than my own | 19:19 |
| minute | rah: not true, i definitely needed the script as a shortcut | 19:19 |
| minute | rah: why would we ship something that we know that noone needed? that is illogical | 19:19 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by markw!~wielaard@gnu.wildebeest.org))) (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 19:19 | |
| * markw -> mjw | 19:19 | |
| rah | minute: you qualified your statement with "as a shortcut", meaning that in actual fact, you did not need it, you simply found it convenient; convenience is not need | 19:20 |
| + wielaard (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae) | 19:20 | |
| minute | rah: i have a need for convenience, lol | 19:20 |
| minute | rah: because time is of the essence sometimes | 19:20 |
| rah | minute: indeed, your choice of what to ship appears completely illogical | 19:20 |
| minute | rah: aren't there a big number of things shipped with e.g. debian that are unneeded? where do you draw the line? | 19:24 |
| rah | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_invented_here | 19:30 |
| minute | rah: NIH doesn't apply because we are not replacing something existing, i think? which tool are we replacing? | 19:31 |
| minute | rah: who has the authority to make new things, then? | 19:32 |
| rah | minute: that wasn't an answer to your question, that was just an aside | 19:36 |
| rah | it informs the discussion | 19:37 |
| rah | NIH is not about replacing anything, it's about not using other people's work | 19:38 |
| minute | rah: which work is not used in this case? which convenience tool to set up the encrypted nvme and copy your data to it should we have used? | 19:38 |
| minute | rah: i wish you would be a bit more constructive in your criticism | 19:39 |
| rah | those are two separate operations | 19:40 |
| rah | you don't need a convenience tool two bring together two operations, you need two tools | 19:41 |
| minute | rah: yep, but the script is a convenience to walk you through the process. | 19:41 |
| rah | I disagree | 19:42 |
| - murdock (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~murdock@50.234.255.130) | 19:42 | |
| minute | rah: what's the issue then? | 19:42 |
| minute | rah: what bothers you so much? | 19:42 |
| + murdock (~murdock@50.234.255.130) | 19:42 | |
| rah | minute: one of the things which bothers me is the fact that high quality, useful software has seemingly taken a back seat to superficial polish | 19:45 |
| minute | rah: excuse me? which high quality, useful software are you talking about? | 19:45 |
| JC[m] | rah: These scripts are helper scripts, right? Scripts that automate some functionality that, sure, an end-user could source themselves or type them in manually to achieve the same or a similar result. Some manufacturers or distro maintainers (Olimex, RPi, Armbian, etc) will place the scripts in rootfs /usr/bin, etc, so you can run some known process without having to do the research, as a courtesy. Of course, this is only one implementation. | 19:46 |
| JC[m] | The same info could be in a handbook, in a wiki, as a GitLab snippet, just a static page of hyperlinks to trusted external sources, etc... If some folks desire the convenience of these scripts being available, whether or not they are considered "required," which implementation would you find most appropriate? | 19:46 |
| minute | rah: you still haven't told me which tools and/or recipes or processes we should rather ship or recommend | 19:46 |
| rah | the operating system provided for the Reform 2 has clearly had a lot of thought and effort put into the user's experience when they run the system; everything is highly polished and well laid out, with care and attention to what the user sees; this is all very good and worthy, except for the fact that it's only skin-deep; the scripts which one sees referenced in the terminal when one starts sway are | 19:50 |
| rah | brittle crap | 19:50 |
| rah | polish is nice to have but it's not important | 19:51 |
| rah | decent software is important | 19:51 |
| JC[m] | rah: I can understand the frustration of projects importing much extraneous i.e. courtesy content into an otherwise lean and concise codebase. That content, however, may still be useful to some and should still be hosted/documented somewhere that is easily located by users that don't have the expertise, patience, etc, to locate it on their own. You mentioned above that the problem is that the helper scripts are there in the first place, not | 19:58 |
| JC[m] | just that the scripts need refining. Here you are calling them brittle crap. I'm curious to find an approach that still gives the users the info/tools they desire while not creating the bloat you claim. | 19:58 |
| minute | rah: i am annoyed by you calling things "brittle crap". but i am more annoyed that you still didn't give concrete, constructive examples of what exactly you would like to see instead of the script(s) | 20:03 |
| minute | rah: because this just feels like a waste of my time instead of actionable steps for improvement | 20:04 |
| minute | rah: and "nothing" is not good enough, sorry. | 20:04 |
| sigrid | rah: feel free to fork (or whatever) and remove the scripts etc | 20:06 |
| sigrid | nobody's stopping you from having a "pure" experience and sharing with others | 20:07 |
| rah | minute: the already-existing software that I would expect to use to in order to install a working operating system to an encrypted drive on the MNT Reform 2 is debian-installer: https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/debian-installer | 20:23 |
| minute | rah: good. we could have skipped a whole lot of noise here if you had started out like that | 20:25 |
| minute | i don't know if debian-installer actually works on the platform. i remember that vagrantc was looking into that once? | 20:26 |
| rah | *facepalm* | 20:28 |
| sigrid | one could argue (with the same kind of argument, heh) debian-installer is not needed | 20:28 |
| sigrid | you could just read from the documentation and do it all manually | 20:28 |
| rah | if you consider what I've said to be noise, it's clear we're never going to communicate | 20:28 |
| rah | sigrid: I disagree | 20:29 |
| sigrid | noted! | 20:29 |
| minute | rah: well, you're the one calling things that we made crap, and it maybe surprising for you, but that's not how we communicate here | 20:34 |
| minute | rah: what i meant by noise is you being disrespectful in places and being constructive (i.e. suggesting an improvement instead of only attacking what is there) only after asking you multiple times | 20:40 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~wielaard@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 21:01 | |
| + mjw (~wielaard@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 21:01 | |
| josch | in an attempt to add something constructive to the discussion: the last time i worked on making debian-installer work on the reform, there were three blockers: 1) some patches are still not upstreamed, so we need to build our own debian-installer with our custom kernel which i didn't manage to pull off 2) for the reform internal display to work some kernel modules need to be loaded in the right order | 21:27 |
| josch | (which is usually done by the initramfs through /etc/initramfs-tools/modules) but works differently for debian-installer and needs more investigation by me before it can work 3) even when ignoring that the display doesn't work and thus using debian-installer via serial, the d-i was unable to find any network devices (even with our patched kernel) so something else is amiss that i wasn't able to figure | 21:27 |
| josch | out yet | 21:27 |
| minute | ah yeah. thanks for the summary! | 21:28 |
| kop316[m] | I was actually semi wondering if mobian-recipes could be useful as well? It generates images for phones maybe and there is an installer for it. | 21:30 |
| josch | kop316[m]: is the installer more than something that flashes the image to somewhere? | 21:30 |
| kop316[m] | josch: yep! you can flash it to the Pinephone/Pinephone Pro, and it is an on device installer | 21:31 |
| josch | aha they are using debos to prepare the image | 21:33 |
| josch | one of the reasons that reform-system-image doesn't use debos is, that debos is amd64 only and i wanted something that i can also run on the reform :) | 21:34 |
| kop316[m] | ohhh you mean that you can run it on the pinephone? | 21:34 |
| kop316[m] | ahhh the reform*** | 21:34 |
| josch | debos doesn't work on the reform because it's amd64 only | 21:35 |
| josch | so i cannot try out the mobian-recipes | 21:35 |
| kop316[m] | fair enough | 21:35 |
| kop316[m] | I'm sort of surprised that would be amd64 only to be honest | 21:35 |
| josch | kop316[m]: https://github.com/go-debos/debos/issues/386 | 21:36 |
| kop316[m] | sorry I meant to say I believe you, it's just surprising that something to help build debian would be amd64 only | 21:37 |
| josch | ah i didn't read your message that you didn't believe me -- i just wanted to provide some context :) | 21:38 |
| kop316[m] | fair enough! The actual installer is based on calamares if you are curious. I do know the guy that works on it says calamares is really frustrating though. The Mobian installer image is always a gamble if it works one week to the next | 21:39 |
| josch | ah okay, if they use calamares then itimage for mobile phones, initially targetting Pine64's PinePhone. | 21:40 |
| josch | Prebuilt images are available here. | 21:40 |
| josch | whoops copypaste fail | 21:40 |
| josch | ah okay, if they use calamares then they are indeed using a real installer -- good to know! | 21:40 |
| kop316[m] | yep! If you have questions about it, there is a mobian development channel. I can't find the address right now, but I thnk it is on OFTC on the IRC side | 21:42 |
| - mlarkin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~mlarkin@047-036-074-225.res.spectrum.com) | 21:45 | |
| gsora | running gnome mobile ui on pocket reform could be an interesting experiment | 21:51 |
| josch | gsora: does gnome mobile work well on non-touch devices? | 21:52 |
| gsora | not sure, never used it... as i said, it would be an interesting experiment :D | 21:53 |
| kop316[m] | gsora: yeah. I woild want to port Mobian to it. Purisms modem is physically compatible with the reform | 21:53 |
| gsora | kop316[m]: do I remember you from the betrusted chat? | 21:54 |
| gsora | also, do you know what modem purism uses? | 21:54 |
| kop316[m] | gsora: yep! same guy | 21:54 |
| gsora | hey there :D | 21:54 |
| kop316[m] | gsora: BM-818, you can buy it on their site | 21:54 |
| kop316[m] | gsora: I have a bad habit of buying FOSS hardware | 21:55 |
| gsora | caught that habit as well now that I have a stable job | 21:55 |
| kop316[m] | I blame minute for making hardware I want | 22:00 |
| minute | :3 | 22:00 |
| kop316[m] | <kop316[m]> "BM-818, you can buy it on..." <- https://shop.puri.sm/shop/librem-5-modem/ <- there is the place for it. the EG-25 is the Pinephone modem, but they use miniPCIe vs. M.2 | 22:01 |
| gsora | now if we could get a reform 2 motherboard in a desktop form factor... | 22:02 |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~murdock@50.234.255.130) | 22:02 | |
| gsora | LTE cards are in my "affordable" range, but 5G... it;s a completely different matter | 22:03 |
| gsora | ngl I would love to carry just a pocket reform and answer calls with it | 22:03 |
| + murdock (~murdock@mobile-166-171-186-217.mycingular.net) | 22:03 | |
| gsora | wit 5g it would become a real road warrior | 22:03 |
| kop316[m] | shrug I don't feel the need for 5G...but I don't do a lot of data intensive stuff anyways | 22:06 |
| gsora | 4G is essentially unusable here | 22:06 |
| gsora | even if we get fake 5G, i think mobile ISPs allocated most of the available bandwidth to that | 22:07 |
| kop316[m] | oooph, sorry to hear! | 22:07 |
| gsora | eh no big deal, i can still survive fine and chat on irc :-) | 22:11 |
| + mlarkin (~mlarkin@047-036-074-225.res.spectrum.com) | 22:17 | |
| - mlarkin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~mlarkin@047-036-074-225.res.spectrum.com) | 22:22 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murdock@mobile-166-171-186-217.mycingular.net) | 22:26 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 22:26 | |
| + mlarkin (~mlarkin@047-036-074-225.res.spectrum.com) | 22:28 | |
| brennen | i have a "replace my phone for many things" dream for the pocket reform, but i'm not getting my hopes too high. | 22:30 |
| - murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 22:31 | |
| brennen | there are many corollaries to the general "we can't have nice things" rule, but my very personal specific one is that the Deciders have Decided that phone-like objects with keyboards are off limits and there's nothing that can be done about it. | 22:32 |
| brennen | still, i keep trying. | 22:32 |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 22:32 | |
| pandora[m] | Bdw regarding the discussion about the helper scripts… I like them because they act as a point of reference of what should (or used to) work on the system and handle system specific pitfalls that a generic internet source wouldn’t… please don’t remove them. They give valuable insights! | 22:38 |
| kop316[m] | <josch> "ah i didn't read your message..." <- So looking at debos, there is an option to do `--disable-fakemachine`, but it looks like that may or may not do much | 22:40 |
| gsora | brennen: i see your point, and in the EU that situation is particularly apparent due to how banks and the PSD2 directives... yet yeah, i keep trying | 22:43 |
| violet | wonder if the pocket's chassis would still have a reasonable degree of structural integrity of 3d printed out of PLA | 22:47 |
| violet | like not drop-proof but capable of surviving a backpack | 22:47 |
| violet | (thinking about ways to shave off weighT) | 22:47 |
| - bgs (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 22:48 | |
| - murdock (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 22:55 | |
| + murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net) | 22:56 | |
| pandora[m] | <violet> "wonder if the pocket's chassis..." <- Don’t use PLA for it | 23:15 |
| pandora[m] | It becomes brittle over time | 23:16 |
| pandora[m] | And is not heat stable | 23:16 |
| pandora[m] | The heat from the chip will probably slowly deform it and over time it will disintegrate gradually | 23:17 |
| violet | aaah yeah | 23:18 |
| pandora[m] | Better use ABS… better temp stability, UV stable and survives many liquids but u can create a smooth finish with acetone | 23:19 |
| sevan | joke: use asbestos, got it :) | 23:19 |
| pandora[m] | If u have a printer that can handle high temp good u can also try PP or PC | 23:22 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a19:3600:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 23:38 | |
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