2023-03-14.log

- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a18:6d00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)00:25
+ GNUmoon (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon)00:44
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- mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)01:04
+ mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)03:10
- vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50)04:13
+ chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a18:6d00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)07:18
- bgs (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net)08:02
+ MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-030-022.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)09:22
+ ReformAllTheWay (~ReformAll@5-203-231-247.pat.nym.cosmote.net)09:23
ReformAllTheWaytoday is the big day right ?09:24
joschyes, it's pi day! ;)09:27
+ aliosablack (~chomwitt@ppp-94-69-24-160.home.otenet.gr)09:59
- MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~MajorBisc@c-001-030-022.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)10:01
- chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a18:6d00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1)10:02
+ MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@2001:1c00:2408:a400:67e:5371:52a7:9b9a)10:04
- aliosablack (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~chomwitt@ppp-94-69-24-160.home.otenet.gr)10:20
ReformAllTheWaynow we have to wait for the Americans to wake up.10:34
ReformAllTheWaydo we have any news on the pocket reform? price? eta?10:34
minuteReformAllTheWay: i think we will launch at 19:00 CEST10:37
ReformAllTheWaythen it's gonna be 19:00 or 20:00 localtime.10:42
ReformAllTheWayalways confused with summer time10:42
* wielaard -> mjw10:43
ReformAllTheWayminute do we have MSRP? i need to upload cash to a bank account :D10:49
minuteReformAllTheWay: starts at $899, free shipping10:56
ReformAllTheWaythat will be 899euro from your shop later is this price with german vat included?11:02
ReformAllTheWayi'd prefer waiting a bit and the whole amount going to you instead of getting a cut through a middleman11:06
+ Major_Biscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-030-022.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)11:25
- MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~MajorBisc@2001:1c00:2408:a400:67e:5371:52a7:9b9a)11:28
minuteReformAllTheWay: that's cool, i hope that not everyone will do this though—because we still need the campaign to succeed11:33
minutealso, we can only start selling from our own shop after delivering all crowdfunded devices.11:34
- ReformAllTheWay (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~ReformAll@5-203-231-247.pat.nym.cosmote.net)11:36
- murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)11:38
+ murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)11:38
mjwminute, what is the advantage to using crowdsupply? With the mnt reform it went pretty smoothly for me, got it pretty quickly directly from Germany to the Netherlands, but I heard others weren't so lucky and had to wait for you to sent stuff to the US first before it got back to them in Europe (but maybe I misunderstood how it really worked).11:42
- murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)11:42
+ murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)11:42
minutemjw: the advantage for who?11:46
mjwminute, for you11:46
minutemjw: we don't have the reach of crowd supply, and they match the crowdfunding sales with their own purchase on top11:47
mjwminute, just curious. I had a good experience. But since I heard others were less pleased having to go through a US store I was wondering why you don't just handle everything through your own.11:47
minutethey are also a distributor, not only a crowdfunding platform11:48
minuteif we manage to sell 200 devices through the crowdfunding, they will buy 200 on top11:48
minute(roughly speaking)11:49
minutethis will also make components a bit cheaper for us11:49
minute(all these numbers are still very low for electronics manufacturing, but for us, a tiny company, they make a big difference)11:49
mjwah, and then resell them, so you are guaranteed some sales with them worrying if they can actually sell them all.11:49
minutecorrect11:50
minutealso, they shield us from the risk of people cancelling and whatnot11:50
minutethis time it should go much more smoothly also, as we are already set up and cleared with mouser, who do the distribution 11:51
mjwright, you are a bit like the local restaurant in my street. I always worry about them predicting correctly how many people will come in and what they'll order. It must be so stressful.11:52
minuteyeah, good comparison11:52
+ ReformAllTheWay (~ReformAll@5-203-231-247.pat.nym.cosmote.net)12:09
ReformAllTheWaywhat is the ETA for the crowdfunded Pockets? When are they supposed to start shipping ?12:12
minuteReformAllTheWay: first, the campaign has to succeed :3 i think it will run for a month12:27
minuteand then 24wks till shipping, because that's the lead time of the imx8mplus modules12:28
mjwminute, how will you define success? How many people do we have to convince to buy one?12:34
+ S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin)12:47
- mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)13:04
scops<minute> "and then 24wks till shipping..." <- does it run with the old reform module out of the box? can i back for "barebone" w13:18
scops..ithout SoM?13:18
minutemjw: at least 15013:32
minutescops: it can run with the imx8mq module, but we don't offer a barebone option in the campaign. there wasn't a lot of demand for that. 13:33
thumminute o/   Break a leg! :o)13:38
minutethum: thx!13:40
- buckket (QUIT: Quit: buckket) (~buckket@pdp8.buckket.org)13:54
+ buckket (~buckket@pdp8.buckket.org)13:59
- murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)14:16
+ murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)14:17
* kuno_ -> kuno14:19
ReformAllTheWayso at the earliest I will have a pocket in october or november :(14:24
scops... i still wait today for a dragonbox pyra... since... 2018? dont remember xD so we can also wait till oct/nov for a reform pocket ;)14:26
+ bgs (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net)14:28
ReformAllTheWayscops i am waiting for that since 2016 if I'm not mistaken14:52
scopsok... than it would be also 2016... i was one of the preoder people (not prepreorder xD)14:55
joschACTION has also been waiting for the pyra since 201615:01
joschif i would want another device of that form factor today it would be the pocket reform15:02
joschthe pyra is just one of many portable linux projects i've backed with money that didn't end up delivering15:03
minute  what's the current holdup for the pyra?15:07
ReformAllTheWayI guess lack of working time and delays in the new cases being coated. My understanding was that the first batch of ~boards have been ready but the new cases/coating is delayed15:08
scopsgood question... man power in assembly ? haven't checked the forums for a while15:08
scopsyeah...15:09
ReformAllTheWayI would love the Pocket reform to replace the GPD microPC I lug around everywhere I go.15:09
ReformAllTheWayfeel naked without a computer15:09
scopsand other difficulties like mad employees that forced ED to shift focus ...15:10
+ mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)15:10
ReformAllTheWayhm If i wait till October to buy directly from Lukas I will probably have to wait 6 months more? Darn a year seems too bad.15:10
ReformAllTheWayHey minute can i take the som from the pocket and put it in the reform and vice-versa? are they plug and play replaceable?15:11
ReformAllTheWayI would love a device like my Sharp Zaurus SL-C3200 clamshell with more recent internals15:12
scopsReformAllTheWay: me too!!!!15:13
ReformAllTheWaymaybe i'll take a shot and try to 3d print a case for the pocket reform with a lenovo x230t type hinge15:13
- ReformAllTheWay (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~ReformAll@5-203-231-247.pat.nym.cosmote.net)15:21
- cwebber (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~user@user/cwebber)15:26
- S0rin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~S0rin@user/s0rin)15:28
mjwso to put a positive spin on it, it will be there by Christmas (and has the blinking lights to match the tree!)15:30
+ S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin)15:30
+ ReformAllTheWay (~ReformAll@5-203-231-247.pat.nym.cosmote.net)15:33
minuteReformAllTheWay: yes, the SOMs are interchangeable15:46
minutescops: mad employees?15:46
scopssomeone sold stock from dragonbox on it's own on ebay... about 16000 € damage if i remember correctly15:51
minutewat15:59
minutethat's incredible15:59
sknebeloof16:02
ReformAllTheWayindeed16:02
- Major_Biscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~MajorBisc@c-001-030-022.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)16:34
+ Major_Biscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-030-022.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)16:38
pandora[m]<minute> "mjw: at least 150" <- That sounds like it should easily be doable? And I find the price point pretty fair too. I don’t see why u shouldn’t succeed 17:02
sigridI hope it will be more than that. it'd be nice17:04
minuteit'd be really nice :317:05
pandora[m]Idk how many people bought the Reform but I would expect even more for the pocket r form (just my guess)17:06
sigridI guess you could say some of those people owning the bigger model would like to get a pocket instead, but won't because they already have a reform17:07
sigridbut that's just like guessing17:07
pandora[m]We shall see in a month :P17:16
+ ajr (~ajr@user/ajr)17:52
+ vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50)18:05
- murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)18:05
+ murdock (~murdock@mobile-166-171-184-225.mycingular.net)18:06
- S0rin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~S0rin@user/s0rin)18:19
+ S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin)18:22
- murdock (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murdock@mobile-166-171-184-225.mycingular.net)18:28
+ murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)18:29
kunoHm, only clicky and linear.  Are the switches hotswap?19:01
- ReformAllTheWay (QUIT: Quit: Client closed) (~ReformAll@5-203-231-247.pat.nym.cosmote.net)19:02
- Major_Biscuit (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.6) (~MajorBisc@c-001-030-022.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl)19:04
minuteand we are live https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/pocket-reform19:04
vkoskivThat video is really nice!!19:05
minutethanks!!19:09
vkoskivSmashed through 10% funding already :D19:09
- vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50)19:11
vkoskivCan I post a link on hacker news?19:12
+ kop316[m] (~kop316bot@2001:470:69fc:105::2:7088)19:16
- S0rin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~S0rin@user/s0rin)19:19
+ S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin)19:20
pandora[m]the ethernet cable is already sold out19:24
vkoskivStill shows "In stock" for me19:24
kunovkoskiv: looks like someone posted it already (unless that was you :), https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3515602919:25
ajrcongrats on the hard work and launch to the mnt team!19:25
vkoskivNope! I'll just happily upvote that one19:25
sevanethernet cable shows in stock for me too19:29
Boostisbetterorder placed. 19:33
sevanI added the supporter pack to my cart, crowd supply tried to upsell me with "You Might Also Want... Pocket Reform Black" XD19:34
Boostisbetterminute: quick question. I rushed to get my order in. Got the best package I could but didn't see if I was getting the 8gb ram board or the 4gb. I would prefer the 8gb.19:36
vkoskivBoostisbetter: Specs say the standard module has 8GB DDR419:37
vkoskivUnder the "Processors and RAM" section of the page.19:37
Boostisbettervkoskiv: thanks! 19:40
minutethere is only an 8 GB version ^^19:41
minutethanks for backing!!!!!19:41
Boostisbetterminute: I would really like the cellular modem as well. Was the plan not bundle that or make it an option in the crowd funding. 19:41
minuteBoostisbetter: it is an option, but not for EU. because mouser doesn't have the EU version of that modem.19:41
BoostisbetterAs in we should source that ourselves? 19:41
minuteBoostisbetter: i think we mention it in the text19:41
BoostisbetterCould I force the US modem? 19:41
minuteBoostisbetter: i think only if you ship to a US address.19:42
BoostisbetterIt would still work here. Just not all channels. 19:42
BoostisbetterI can do that but not on the same order. 19:42
minutebut i recommend sourcing the EU version. we will soon set it up somehow19:42
BoostisbetterOK then I will wait. 19:42
kunoI didn't see an option for cellular, how do I get that? (shipping to US, though I intend to use it in Ecuador)19:50
joschwow... 48% funded after only one hour? whatever advertisements MNT is running they are working!20:07
minutehaha20:08
minutekuno: oh, i also don't see the modem... but i'm not in the US20:08
kunoI'm not in the US either (I'm in Ecuador), but I ordered with shipping to the US20:09
kunominute: I assume it will also be available separately later?20:09
minutekuno: yes!20:11
minutethe modem is mouser pn 277-EM06ALA-512-SGAD20:12
minutebut it's cheaper at seeed20:12
sevanit's on the front page of the orange site now20:12
kunominute: and the keys?  are they hotswap?  (if not, can I get an extra PCB later to solder in some tactile switches? :)20:12
minutekuno: keys are not hotswap, but sure, we will offer pcbs20:13
kunoawesome, thanks!20:13
minuteorange page has server issues atm though20:17
sevanyeah, got an error here too20:21
sevanI think everything is running off a single box, they added a second one as a spare the last time there was a major outage20:22
sevanminute: does the mouser matching orders happen after you're 100% funded?20:24
sevan(it's 56% funded now)20:25
minutesevan: not sure! :D20:26
minutei guess HN is struggling with the GPT-4 comments20:26
sevanlol20:27
- mjw (QUIT: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by markw!~wielaard@gnu.wildebeest.org))) (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae)20:37
+ wielaard (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:4fd:39a7:74ac:7bae)20:37
+ mjw (~wielaard@gnu.wildebeest.org)20:39
minute60% :D21:02
sevanminute: best of luck for the mnt team with the crowdsupply, really excited for you all. I can't afford to order now but will place one later down the line.21:04
+ d_m (~d_m@user/d-m/x-5109880)21:06
minutesevan: thank you!!21:12
JC[m]Same here. Congratulations! I'm super stoked and have been sending links to numerous folks but unfortunately can't afford one right now as I'm between jobs.21:21
joschwtf my name is on that page!! o0 :D21:21
violetah wrt modem, it did not appear for me when i was browsing the page logged out but when i logged in to an account with a set shipping address it showed up for me21:21
JC[m]josch:  IMO it's well deserved because you do a ton of work for the platform21:22
violetso i guess i now have the modem in a separate order. very funny if i get a modem and just have it hanging around until a laptop shows up 8 months later21:22
violetbtw is there a place to source ix ethernet to female rj45, maybe in short dongle-length 21:23
violeti am usually jacking into my 50ft ethernet cables strew about my place lol. although i guess if i get an F to F adapter, what's 10ft more21:24
minuteJC[m]: thanks for spreading the word!!21:26
minutejosch: haha i hope that's ok!!21:26
minuteviolet: if you find F rj45 to ix, do tell21:27
joschi guess i'm just surprised because i've done nothing regarding the pocket reform (yet) :D21:27
minutejosch: all part of a bigger plan...21:28
minute:D21:28
joschi'll definitely be here to see it :)21:37
minuteawesome!21:37
JC[m]and I promise I'll start being more helpful soon21:39
minuteJC[m]: no worries21:41
violetis the rp2040 on the keyboard pcb or is it on the main board21:43
minuteviolet: both21:43
minuteviolet: one rp2040 is on the mainboard and works as the system controller (watches usb-pd, charging, power lines). the other is the usb input controller on keyboard21:44
violetah! ok. so importantly the system controller is not on the keyboard then21:44
violetcool cool cool21:44
minutecorrect21:44
- murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)21:53
+ murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)21:56
mtmis the basic logic of the keyboard controller to send traffic to the main USB port unless the Circle key is pressed. In that case only send it on the System controller USB port? Wondering how the decision is made to revert back to the main USB port. Is that at the command of the System controller or perhaps a state machine in the keyboard firmware?21:58
minutemtm: almost. the system controller is connected to the keyboard via UART. so there are two paths, USB to the SOC and UART to the system controller22:00
minuteit's the same principle as in MNT Reform.22:00
mtmah, I see.  But only one port is actively sending keyboard data at a time, yes?22:01
minutemtm: correct.22:02
minutecircle key enters "meta mode"22:02
minutein this mode, you interact with the keyboard internal menu/shortcuts and no keypresses are sent via USB until you exit this mode.22:02
mtmis the escape from meta mode handled by the firmware or is it toggled off by the system controller?22:03
minutekeyboard firmware.22:04
mtmfor example Circle-B immediately exits meta mode whereas Circle-F1 does not22:04
mtmokay, thanks22:04
minutemtm: yes, this is decided by each meta function. 22:05
mtmstill toying with the idea of makinig an Atreus style split keyboard for my Reform22:05
minutemtm: did you see this? https://community.mnt.re/t/another-ergo-keyboard-design-for-the-reform/671/1622:07
- murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)22:07
mtmsounds like I could wire up my Circle key to just act as an interrupt to wake the CPU, save some power22:07
minutemtm: and https://kbd.news/Custom-Reform-keyboard-1375.html22:07
mtmyep, one of my inspirations!22:07
+ murdock (~murdock@mobile-166-171-184-195.mycingular.net)22:09
+ vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:50)22:10
violeti also want an atreus style split for it, if i can get myself to actually put in the effort to do the pcb routing22:11
violetlaying out the switches for an angled split sucks cause you want to mirror the left and right sides but there's no way to mirror components in kicad without also mirroring the pin placement because you literally never do this except for when making weird keyboards22:12
mtmhah, same!  I remember Technomancy having a bit of Scheme code to do the keyboard layout, presumably in Kicad?  Might be worth exploring22:13
violetyeah i was just thinking that i might copy that strategy22:13
violetbecause i remember that from when i was looking at the atreus source22:13
violetbasically the scheme codes just generates the pcb 22:13
violetbecause the pcb file is plain text and basically just S-expressions anyway iirc (its been awhile)22:14
violetthen just open the pcb up in kicad and do all your exports for the manufacturer from there22:14
mtmI think the main blocker for me is dealing with surface mount stuff22:14
- murdock (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~murdock@mobile-166-171-184-195.mycingular.net)22:15
+ murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)22:15
violetyeah i have the advantage of knowing someone else who knows how to do surface mount so i will probably go asking them for help if i get to that point22:15
mtmI should probably educate myself on the state of hobby level wave soldering and such (if thats even a thing)22:17
violetthe switches themselves are through-hole i think22:17
mtmright22:17
violetand you can omit the LEDs to save some work there22:17
mtmmostly thinking of the CPU bit22:17
violetyeah22:17
violetif you do a split though you can get away with using a larger easier to solder microcontroller if you're willing to do a different firmware22:18
violetlike you could pretty reasonably get a larger atmega32u4. still surface mount, but you can get it in a size thats a lot easier to solder22:18
mtm:) (that's why I was asking the questions about how the Circle key was working)22:19
violetmight also be able to just slap a pi zero board onto it TBQH, they designed the pi zero board to be easy to solder on as a pcb module if i remember right22:19
violetwhich has the rp2040 chip so you dont need to do a full firmware port22:20
violeter is it pi zero?22:20
violetits pi something22:20
violetpi pico sorry sorry22:20
mtmone idea I had was to use some microcontroller daughterboard and just have a dumb scanning matrix keyboard that it would connect to through a simple bus. Then I could just play with different simple layouts and just plug in the microcontroller.  A few quick scanning matrix edits and done22:22
mtmI need poke aroud in my Reform again and see what sort of space I have to work with22:23
- gnou_liber (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~gnou_libe@223.pool85-50-3.static.orange.es)22:45
- murdock (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)22:45
+ murdock (~murdock@dhcp-68-142-57-54.greenmountainaccess.net)22:46
- buckket (QUIT: Quit: buckket) (~buckket@pdp8.buckket.org)22:56
- bgs (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net)23:00
+ gnou_liber (~gnou_libe@223.pool85-50-3.static.orange.es)23:00
+ buckket (~buckket@pdp8.buckket.org)23:01
+ brennen (~brennen@user/brennen)23:04
brennenwelp, backed the pocket reform.23:05
brennenyou finally got me.23:05
minutebrennen: thank you!!23:06
brennen:)23:06
vagrantcACTION predicts a fashion trend of very large pockets in some circles23:07
+ grimmware (~grimmware@2a03:b0c0:1:a1::6ad:1001)23:10
brenneni'm kind of curious if the existing pockets on my cargo pants will work23:10
brennenit feels juuuuust possible23:10
brennenbut i have not measured.23:10
violeti wonder if there is any movement towards supporting the NPU in the iMX8MP in mainline linux (or if its already there)23:10
violetmy guess being no because there hasnt really been movement towards an NPU framework for the kernel in general until recently but, there is a lot of workloads you could accelerate with an NPU23:11
minuteviolet: the npu is supported23:13
minutedue to recent work by collabora23:13
minutein etnaviv23:13
violetyooooooo23:13
minute(openCL). i haven't tested it myself yet, but will23:13
violetthat's super exciting, i want to try to offload software-defined radio maths to it23:13
+ photomattmills (~photomatt@192-184-142-193.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)23:17
photomattmillsbacked the crowdfunding, now to resist the temptation to try to build a carrier board myself before the official one ships.23:20
minutephotomattmills: thank you!!23:23
pandora[m]There is no usb a on the pocket isn’t it?23:37
- photomattmills (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~photomatt@192-184-142-193.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)23:53
minutepandora[m]: nope, needs adapter 23:55
+ photomattmills (~photomatt@192-184-142-193.fiber.dynamic.sonic.net)23:58

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