| - Gooberpatrol_66 (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 00:06 | |
| - S0rin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 00:26 | |
| + S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 00:29 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 01:03 | |
| - S0rin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 01:15 | |
| + S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 01:20 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 03:10 | |
| + Gooberpatrol66 (~Gooberpat@user/gooberpatrol66) | 04:14 | |
| + mark__ (~mark@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 05:03 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~mark@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 05:04 | |
| - marlun (QUIT: Read error: Software caused connection abort) (~marlun@46.101.246.245) | 06:49 | |
| + marlun (~marlun@46.101.246.245) | 06:49 | |
| + bgs (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 07:08 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:7a0a:c00:1ac0:4dff:fedb:a3f1) | 07:21 | |
| - bgs (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 08:37 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-009-026.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 09:23 | |
| + qwer (~qwer@78-80-120-85.customers.tmcz.cz) | 10:10 | |
| * wielaard -> mjw | 10:27 | |
| + oomono (uid328183@id-328183.tinside.irccloud.com) | 10:55 | |
| - qwer (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~qwer@78-80-120-85.customers.tmcz.cz) | 11:12 | |
| + qwer (~qwer@78-80-120-85.customers.tmcz.cz) | 11:20 | |
| - qwer (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~qwer@78-80-120-85.customers.tmcz.cz) | 11:32 | |
| + qwer (~qwer@37-48-26-121.nat.epc.tmcz.cz) | 12:02 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 13:04 | |
| + bgs (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 13:59 | |
| - vkoskiv (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~vkoskiv@89-166-62-97.bb.dnainternet.fi) | 14:04 | |
| + vkoskiv (~vkoskiv@89-166-62-97.bb.dnainternet.fi) | 14:18 | |
| vkoskiv | I'd like to meet other Reform users, but I'm not aware of any in my area. | 14:19 |
|---|---|---|
| + mtm (~mtm@c-71-228-84-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 15:10 | |
| sigrid | i wouldn't even know where to look | 15:30 |
| sigrid | all my friends here in Stockholm are into m1/m2 macbooks | 15:31 |
| - cwebber (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~user@user/cwebber) | 15:52 | |
| - oomono (QUIT: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) (uid328183@id-328183.tinside.irccloud.com) | 16:25 | |
| minute | btw after chatting with some people who work on drivers and stuff, it is much more likely that rk3588 will be in a next gen reform than nvidia xavier | 16:27 |
| q66 | i want to find somebody so i can borrow theirs for a day and figure out what's wrong with the u-boot when built with a baremetal toolchain | 16:27 |
| q66 | minute: i have a board with rk3588 | 16:28 |
| q66 | still a long way to go till stuff's ready | 16:28 |
| q66 | (quartzpro64) | 16:28 |
| minute | turns out there is no nouveau support for xavier and nvidia isn't interested in helping the devs and also the nouveau devs already have too much on their plate | 16:28 |
| q66 | e.g. no gpu/display driver at all :) | 16:28 |
| minute | q66: yes, but things will change soon | 16:28 |
| minute | yes, it's coming | 16:28 |
| minute | q66: but did you try booting a system and play with it over serial yet? | 16:30 |
| q66 | yup | 16:30 |
| minute | q66: was it... quick? :D | 16:30 |
| q66 | i hang out with the people who are working on the kernel stuff on irc | 16:30 |
| q66 | there is no reclocking yet so it works at minimum frequency | 16:30 |
| minute | ah! | 16:30 |
| q66 | but the hardware has a lot of potential | 16:30 |
| q66 | so far it can boot, have serial, sd card and network, and afaict usb is close, and pcie | 16:31 |
| q66 | everything else is... just not there | 16:32 |
| q66 | of course, things are different if you use the BSP kernel | 16:32 |
| q66 | also no mainline u-boot support yet, and the vendor u-boot requires an updated version of a tool that rockchip has not released source for yet, so all you have is a prebuilt binary for x86_64 | 16:32 |
| q66 | i was going to look into stripping down the cursed scripts you use to build that and hack around stuff somehow so that it can build portably | 16:33 |
| q66 | but without source for that tool it's not going to be possible unless you do something like running it through qemu-user (it's static, so it's technically possible) | 16:34 |
| minute | about uboot i'm kind of emotionless | 16:35 |
| minute | for me most important is the kernel and mesa :3 | 16:36 |
| minute | q66: but cool that you're working on this! | 16:36 |
| q66 | well for one i like to be able to bootstrap my boards from my actual workstation, which 1) is ppc64le and 2) uses musl | 16:36 |
| q66 | so x86_64 prebuilt binaries are kind of a nope | 16:36 |
| minute | i feel that a bunch of people are hacking on making that thing work | 16:36 |
| minute | and that's not the case at all with nvidia | 16:37 |
| minute | q66: but you could use qemu-user-static? | 16:38 |
| q66 | probably, yeah | 16:38 |
| q66 | still not a fan | 16:38 |
| minute | sure! | 16:38 |
| minute | would be great to replace that stuff | 16:39 |
| minute | btw, what's the irc channel? | 16:39 |
| minute | i'm only in #panfrost | 16:40 |
| q66 | #quartz-dev on pine64's network | 16:42 |
| minute | thanks | 16:44 |
| q66 | i wonder if the final quartzpro64 will be like the devboard | 16:45 |
| q66 | the devboard is kinda cute | 16:45 |
| q66 | it's huge, has two hdmi outputs *and* an hdmi input | 16:45 |
| q66 | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQsWuo9XsAMNC0Q?format=jpg&name=4096x4096 | 16:47 |
| q66 | so spacious | 16:47 |
| minute | cool | 16:55 |
| josch | q66: may i ask what ppc64le hardware and musl userland you are running? | 17:34 |
| josch | and i thought i'm the odd-one-out with an arm64 laptop instead of x86_64 laptop | 17:35 |
| josch | (well not in this channel of course, but in general...) | 17:35 |
| minute | raptor talos workstation perhaps? | 17:40 |
| q66 | yeah i have a few of those | 17:41 |
| q66 | currently running void-ppc but i'm phasing it out early next year | 17:42 |
| minute | in favor of chimera? | 17:48 |
| q66 | sure | 17:48 |
| q66 | i'm switching my machines sometime this month | 17:48 |
| q66 | next year i will cease maintenance | 17:48 |
| q66 | i just don't have time to keep so many projects | 17:49 |
| q66 | especially not if one is pretty much a mostly worse version of the other | 17:49 |
| + oomono (uid328183@id-328183.tinside.irccloud.com) | 17:52 | |
| minute | q66: cease maintenance of what? | 18:06 |
| sigrid | minute: so rk3588 choice is mostly because nouveau is not likely to happen any time soon for the xavier? | 18:07 |
| q66 | minute: void-ppc | 18:09 |
| sigrid | reading the log it does not sound like rk3588 is in any way ready either | 18:10 |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~MajorBisc@c-001-009-026.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 18:11 | |
| q66 | depends on the timeframe minute is aiming for | 18:12 |
| q66 | if you give it a year it will probably be ready | 18:12 |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 18:14 | |
| - Ar|stote|is (QUIT: Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) (~linx@149-210-4-79.mobile.nym.cosmote.net) | 18:15 | |
| minute | sigrid: no, it's because i have talked to people who assured me that the rk3588 display and gpu stuff will be in place pretty soon | 18:17 |
| sigrid | ok, makes sense | 18:18 |
| minute | if someone adds nouveau support for xavier i will reevaluate it | 18:18 |
| minute | but it sounded like it's not trivial | 18:19 |
| q66 | nouveau should have basic support for the gpu architecture | 18:20 |
| q66 | with a bit of work you should be able to get it to at least modeset | 18:20 |
| q66 | but acceleration is a different matter | 18:20 |
| + Ar|stote|is (~linx@149-210-4-79.mobile.nym.cosmote.net) | 18:20 | |
| minute | q66: i talked with karolherbst etc | 18:21 |
| q66 | i think nvidia has largely given up on releasing the complete firmware for any hardware before ampere | 18:21 |
| q66 | so stuff between maxwell and ampere is probably hopeless forever | 18:21 |
| minute | see here from 19:25 https://people.freedesktop.org/~cbrill/dri-log/index.php?channel=nouveau&date=2022-11-05 | 18:23 |
| minute | this was my conversation | 18:23 |
| q66 | that's pretty much just what i said | 18:24 |
| q66 | missing firmware | 18:24 |
| q66 | and yeah i don't expect that to get resolved | 18:25 |
| q66 | except maybe a few years in the future | 18:25 |
| + doctorhoo (~hanno@m83-191-98-72.cust.tele2.se) | 18:28 | |
| sigrid | lol re a53 cores being off | 18:28 |
| sigrid | sounds pretty bad :D | 18:29 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by mark__!~mark@gnu.wildebeest.org))) (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:9e5c:8eff:fe8f:a440) | 18:29 | |
| * mark__ -> mjw | 18:29 | |
| + wielaard (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:9e5c:8eff:fe8f:a440) | 18:30 | |
| doctorhoo | I am seeing the following errors in dmesg every 10s or so: | 18:30 |
| doctorhoo | caam_jr 30901000.jr: 2000005b: CCB: desc idx 0: RNG: Hardware error | 18:30 |
| doctorhoo | hwrng: no data available | 18:30 |
| minute | doctorhoo: huh, that's a new one | 18:30 |
| minute | doctorhoo: is this persistent after a cold start? | 18:30 |
| doctorhoo | That is on an up-to-date sysimagev3 with full disk encryption (on NVME) | 18:30 |
| doctorhoo | Let me check the logs concerning when the msg start appearing | 18:31 |
| doctorhoo | ok, I am only now realizing that I have been putting the system to suspend again and again over an embarrassing long time -- time for a cold start and then I will report back :) | 18:37 |
| - doctorhoo (QUIT: Quit: "") (~hanno@m83-191-98-72.cust.tele2.se) | 18:38 | |
| minute | sigrid: anyway before rk3588 is ready we'll have imx8mplus and rpi cm4. it's not yet decided if ls1028a will make it. | 18:42 |
| minute | the company who is supposed to finalize the ls1028a module is stalling me for months (there's still the serdes problem on most modules) and i'm not sure if i can fix the problem myself | 18:43 |
| + doctorhoo (~hanno@213-67-23-31-no2005.tbcn.telia.com) | 18:45 | |
| kfx | I've given up on ever having a fully-functional rockchip device. I own so many and they've all been "just a few months" from working for years | 18:45 |
| minute | kfx: wasn't the rk3399 working pretty well? (i haven't used it myself though) | 18:49 |
| doctorhoo | minute: back from a cold start: all quiet now! Sorry for the noise, not quite sure what state the system was in. I will keep an eye out whether this msg comes back or not | 18:49 |
| minute | doctorhoo: thanks! sounds like a strange glitch | 18:50 |
| minute | kfx: i just remember a time when people were posting about their pinebook pros all the time | 18:50 |
| kfx | minute: people STILL post about pinephones all the time, and they still don't work either | 18:50 |
| minute | i don't mean the phone, i mean the laptop | 18:50 |
| minute | i have two of those phones (but first gen) in a drawer | 18:51 |
| kfx | I have a pinebook. if you use it like a desktop computer it's fine, but it does not work as advertised | 18:51 |
| minute | ah, what's the matter with it? | 18:51 |
| kfx | I've never met anyone who used one as a primary machine and was happy about it, including myself | 18:51 |
| minute | the rk3399 one? (the pro i mean) | 18:51 |
| kfx | yeah I have the pro | 18:51 |
| minute | i thought it was beefier than imx8mq | 18:51 |
| minute | cortex-a72 and all | 18:52 |
| kfx | several times I've crashed it by plugging in a usb drive | 18:52 |
| kfx | tons of stuff never worked right, primarily suspend | 18:52 |
| minute | ah well, we have some issues around that, too | 18:52 |
| kfx | it's still not possible to run off a mainline kernel, despite this being an explicit goal of multiple developers over the course of years | 18:53 |
| minute | oh ok, i did not know that | 18:53 |
| kfx | the best thing that happened to it was Tow-Boot provided UEFI and early-boot video onboard | 18:53 |
| kfx | minute: the reform shares some issues, but the pine64 community is MASSIVE in comparison | 18:54 |
| kfx | out of all their products, the only two I actually use are the power supply and the soldering iron | 18:54 |
| minute | kfx: well, my guess is that's because of the price difference? | 18:54 |
| kfx | I have the pinephone, the pinebook pro, the pinenote, and none of them are fit for purpose, even after years | 18:55 |
| minute | kfx: do you use reform on a regular basis? | 18:55 |
| kfx | minute: that's what I mean, there are so many people with access to pine/rockchip hardware but progress just grinds to a halt | 18:55 |
| kfx | I use reform daily | 18:55 |
| kfx | and I have since I got it | 18:56 |
| minute | ah cool. so you perceive it as more stable? | 18:56 |
| kfx | very much so | 18:56 |
| kfx | I preferred back when it was easy to build a static kernel and a self-contained rescue system but that's personal preference | 18:57 |
| minute | well, i know what you mean... maybe we can bring that back as an option, i sometimes would like that for debugging things | 18:57 |
| kfx | reform is a laptop I could give to someone and say "here's quirk #1 and quirk #2, other than that enjoy" | 18:57 |
| kfx | if I gave someone a pinebook pro the message would be "sorry about this shit laptop you'll need a new one in six months" | 18:57 |
| minute | lol ok! | 18:58 |
| minute | i did not really realize this, thanks | 18:58 |
| vkoskiv | I did get that 'walmart $300 laptop' vibe from the pinebook stuff, when I was looking at them. | 18:58 |
| vkoskiv | Reform is more in the MacBook Pro category, in terms of ruggedness/solidness | 18:59 |
| kfx | I cut myself badly on the bottom case of the pinebook pro | 18:59 |
| kfx | like, it's engineered to a cost point and not for human use | 18:59 |
| kfx | that case is a razor | 18:59 |
| vkoskiv | (I've never held a pinebook, just looked at pictures) | 18:59 |
| minute | yeah, it surely is optimized for lowest price point, i guess they wanted to spread it as much as possible | 19:00 |
| vagrantc | fwiw, i've used bot the pinebook (allwinner-A64) and pinebook-pro (rockchip-rk3399) as my primary computer for months at a time, and even used them as laptops while travelling. | 19:00 |
| kfx | fun fact: if you pull the bottom cover off the pinebook pro and then open the laptop, the hinges destroy themselves immediately | 19:00 |
| vkoskiv | Sounds like a 90s PowerBook | 19:00 |
| vkoskiv | Except with PowerBooks just opening the lid is enough to destroy the hinge mounts | 19:00 |
| vkoskiv | (Might be the several decades of plastic aging, though) | 19:00 |
| minute | vagrantc: did you use a mainline kernel or a vendor kernel? or mainline with some patches, like with reform? | 19:01 |
| vagrantc | minute: debian's kernel, without patches not in debian | 19:01 |
| vagrantc | minute: it is arguably the main reasons i don't use the mnt/reform more ... a patched kernel | 19:02 |
| vagrantc | (i mean, early on I used a patched kernel, but worked to get everything mainlined) | 19:02 |
| minute | that doesn't sound ~that~ bad for rockchip then? | 19:02 |
| vagrantc | that said, i'm fine with usb-ethernet and usb-wifi adatpers | 19:02 |
| kfx | :) | 19:03 |
| minute | ah, patches for eth and pcie are missing or...? | 19:03 |
| q66 | <kfx> it's still not possible to run off a mainline kernel, despite this being an explicit goal of multiple developers over the course of years | 19:03 |
| q66 | it's possible though | 19:03 |
| vagrantc | usinng nvme on the pinebook-pro and there's no built-in ethernet | 19:03 |
| vagrantc | yeah, it is *possible* and I do it daily. :) | 19:03 |
| minute | ahh | 19:05 |
| minute | ok | 19:05 |
| q66 | some stuff will be non-functional, but you can make it work with kernel patches | 19:05 |
| kfx | see | 19:05 |
| q66 | i think the only thing that cannot be trivially patched is type-c displayport | 19:05 |
| vagrantc | felt a little silly at the mnt/reform meetup using my pinebook-pro and didn't even turn on the mnt/reform till near the end :) | 19:05 |
| kfx | that's the pine64 flavor | 19:05 |
| kfx | "it works great as long as you don't want to use the whole computer" | 19:05 |
| vagrantc | i've used the type-c HDMI before | 19:05 |
| vagrantc | no patches | 19:05 |
| kfx | that's why I walked away from rockchip devices | 19:05 |
| q66 | you need the extcon driver nonsense | 19:05 |
| q66 | which is not mainline | 19:05 |
| vagrantc | though... maybe my memory is foggy on that | 19:05 |
| q66 | i think other than that you need like 3 small patches for pbp | 19:05 |
| kfx | q66: apparently my definition of 'mainline kernel' is incorrect? I want to be able to download a tarball from the front page of kernel.org and build it | 19:05 |
| q66 | which can be put in distro patches without intefering with other devices | 19:05 |
| vagrantc | kfx: i haven't met a computer running linux in 23+ years that didn't have some quirks. | 19:05 |
| kfx | if I have to carry patchesor be picky about distros then it's not mainline. | 19:06 |
| kfx | vagrantc: I work with quirk-free linux machines every day | 19:06 |
| vagrantc | "not possible" != "missing some features" | 19:06 |
| kfx | I disagree | 19:06 |
| q66 | then there are zero arm laptops that fit your criteria | 19:06 |
| q66 | reform needs kernel patches to fully work too | 19:06 |
| kfx | computer works or does not work. I have no time to quibble over grey areas here | 19:07 |
| q66 | and is missing much more crucial features without them | 19:07 |
| vagrantc | pfft. | 19:07 |
| kfx | q66: yes, I already acknowledged that | 19:07 |
| vagrantc | i daresay, worksforme | 19:07 |
| minute | i should really upstream that pcie internal refclk thing. | 19:07 |
| vagrantc | not interested in binary oversimplification, almost nothing is actually binary | 19:07 |
| kfx | computers tend to be | 19:07 |
| vagrantc | ACTION chuckles a little | 19:08 |
| kfx | minute: the refclk thing is what I'm hoping to be able to port to 9front so we can bring up wifi. at that point everything on reform will be supported and it will be my main computer | 19:09 |
| minute | anyway. i think we can agree that it's useful to have beefy reform as an option | 19:09 |
| vagrantc | well, i guess i'm just using a non-computer then. i guess i don't need a computer. | 19:09 |
| vagrantc | minute: definitely! | 19:09 |
| minute | kfx: ah great. the patch is not complicated | 19:09 |
| kfx | minute: no, it's clear. I'm not a programmer so it will take me some time to understand how to port it, and someone else will probably get there first, but I'm patient | 19:10 |
| sigrid | i have a 9front supported wifi laying around somewhere :/ | 19:11 |
| kfx | my biggest wish-list item for the reform is actually unrelated to the kernel (linux or otherwise) | 19:12 |
| kfx | I'd pay a hundred dollars for early-boot video in u-boot | 19:12 |
| sigrid | i find that more useful than a working wifi | 19:14 |
| vagrantc | yeah, that would make debugging a lot easier | 19:14 |
| vagrantc | might actually consider disconnecting the serial console | 19:14 |
| minute | kfx: yeah i'd like that, too. 9front has the code. someone just needs to port it to u-boot | 19:20 |
| josch | i'd give 100 eur for early-boot video as well | 19:49 |
| josch | maybe somebody can put up a code-bounty or some such? | 19:50 |
| vkoskiv | Yeah there are services for that | 19:50 |
| vkoskiv | gitcoin (not sure if creeptocurrency-related) | 19:50 |
| sigrid | I am going to have a load of free time the coming week and might take a stab at that | 19:50 |
| vkoskiv | Yeah, gitcoin looks like it's a crypto thing | 19:50 |
| vkoskiv | I'd be willing to chip in a bit as well. | 19:50 |
| minute | we could think about running bountes via community | 20:07 |
| minute | bounties | 20:08 |
| josch | somehow i have a deja-vu -- wasn't there a code bounty forum thread already? | 20:20 |
| kfx | people have offered to pay for new SoM cards and ortholinear keyboards, but I don't think there's A Thread | 20:22 |
| - Ar|stote|is (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~linx@149-210-4-79.mobile.nym.cosmote.net) | 20:25 | |
| + Ar|stote|is (~linx@149-210-4-79.mobile.nym.cosmote.net) | 20:29 | |
| + ajr (~ajr@user/ajr) | 20:29 | |
| josch | i found the source of my deja-vu: https://mntre.com/reform-irc-logs/2022-06-28.log.html#t14:05:42 | 21:41 |
| josch | at leat today i know that something is off with my hardware because i have the same problem with three different nvme ssds after resume that work well for others | 21:41 |
| sigrid | same kernel version? | 21:42 |
| josch | sigrid: i have the problem for multiple different kernel versions | 21:43 |
| josch | sigrid: and yes, minute and i are running the same kernel and same ssd and it doesn't work for me | 21:44 |
| sigrid | do those ssds run the same fw version? :) | 21:44 |
| josch | i did not check | 21:44 |
| vkoskiv | For me, the problem with suspend resume only showed up when I switched to the WD Blue drive | 21:44 |
| josch | but i'd be surprised if it was the firmware version because different ssds from different manufacturers exhibit the same problem | 21:44 |
| vkoskiv | It was working fine with my Intel one | 21:45 |
| josch | vkoskiv: but your intel drive had different problems, no? | 21:45 |
| vkoskiv | Yeah, it would intermittently freeze while in use. | 21:45 |
| vkoskiv | Similar I/O timeout error in dmesg, but it would recover and continue normally after a few seconds | 21:45 |
| vkoskiv | And no issues resuming from suspend | 21:45 |
| - jackhill (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~jackhill@kalessin.dragonsnail.net) | 21:46 | |
| josch | if at some point i'm meeting a reform user with working suspend we can try swapping the hardware :) | 21:46 |
| - doctorhoo (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~hanno@213-67-23-31-no2005.tbcn.telia.com) | 21:47 | |
| + cwebber (~user@user/cwebber) | 22:09 | |
| minute | OK, imx8mplus adapter rev d-2 uploaded to pcbway https://mastodon.social/@mntmn/109310388181775842 | 22:50 |
| + jackhill (~jackhill@kalessin.dragonsnail.net) | 23:01 | |
| sknebel | now enjoy your holiday :) | 23:03 |
| - bgs (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~bgs@212-85-160-171.dynamic.telemach.net) | 23:15 | |
| minute | thanks! | 23:29 |
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