| - frank_ (QUIT: Quit: ZNC 1.8.2 - https://znc.in) (~frank2@juicy.frank2.net) | 00:00 | |
| + frank2 (~frank2@juicy.frank2.net) | 00:01 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:671f:736d:4d41:28c3) | 00:15 | |
| - ajr (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.6) (~ajr@user/ajr) | 01:21 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 02:02 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 04:08 | |
| - vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 06:16 | |
| Boostisbetter | mntpocket: YES!!! minute: rad! Keep up the great work. | 07:21 |
|---|---|---|
| kitty4 | oh? niiiice uwu | 07:22 |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:e515:c8d5:9938:b1b6) | 08:53 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:e515:c8d5:9938:b1b6) | 09:03 | |
| - chartreuse (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~chartreus@node-1w7jr9ql2247ulxzt91eckjma.ipv6.telus.net) | 10:24 | |
| + chartreuse (~chartreus@node-1w7jr9ql2247ulxzt91eckjma.ipv6.telus.net) | 11:24 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:38ea:666e:63fd:fbc3) | 12:04 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:38ea:666e:63fd:fbc3) | 12:23 | |
| - GNUmoon2 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 12:54 | |
| + GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 12:55 | |
| - GNUmoon2 (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 13:03 | |
| + GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 13:04 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:454b:92f1:2a92:b402) | 13:44 | |
| Boostisbetter | minute: is there a good way to get a hold of you privately? Would that just me emailing you? | 13:55 |
| minute | Boostisbetter: there's no private me basically ;) | 13:59 |
| minute | Boostisbetter: what do you need? | 14:00 |
| minute | btw StarFive wrote me about using their RISC-V soc, but they want me to sign an NDA to show any datasheets | 14:00 |
| minute | which i find... not good | 14:00 |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 14:03 | |
| Boostisbetter | minute: ok was going to write some thoughts your way, and didn't want to just dump them here or the forums. It isn't something I'd like to really have a public discussion on I guess. Nothing top secret or anything. | 14:20 |
| minute | what's sensitive about it? | 14:20 |
| Boostisbetter | talking about other companies, business strategies, etc. | 14:21 |
| minute | ok, you can send it to lukas@mntre.com | 14:21 |
| Boostisbetter | ok, thanks! | 14:21 |
| Boostisbetter | minute: I sent you an email. I forgot to mention that I live in Germany should that matter. | 14:38 |
| minute | Boostisbetter: i have read it, thank you! | 14:43 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:454b:92f1:2a92:b402) | 14:43 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:41c2:c97c:1364:63b1) | 14:43 | |
| Boostisbetter | 👍️ | 14:43 |
| - GNUmoon2 (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 14:46 | |
| + GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 14:46 | |
| - erle (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~erle@ip5f5af7a8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) | 14:48 | |
| + erle (~erle@ip5f5af7a8.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) | 14:52 | |
| Boostisbetter | BTW, anyone know if RMS has ever commented on the Reform? I find the guy to be crazy myself, but I would think something like the Reform would illicit at least some kind of response. | 14:56 |
| Boostisbetter | minute: I have that EXACT same Eremit battery in my Penkesu. Super rad seeing the Pocket Reform continue to come along! | 15:00 |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 15:05 | |
| erle | Boostisbetter i once talked to RMS at a conference about open hardware and he seemed less interested in it than i thought. | 15:12 |
| erle | Boostisbetter it was not about reform in particular i think | 15:13 |
| erle | Boostisbetter i remember him saying that the fabs are a problem for trust – after all your chip is still going to be made there – and that this problem could be solved “maybe if we have star-trek-style replicators”. but also that we have 40 years of evidence that the current arrangements about hardware are “good enough” for user freedom (but maybe i misunderstood him there). | 15:15 |
| erle | oh i did actually ask him via email some time later about reform | 15:17 |
| erle | let's see | 15:17 |
| erle | Boostisbetter did you know you can just email RMS? he'll reply encrypted if you attach your PGP key | 15:18 |
| erle | so you can send him an encrypted mail with your key in there and no snooper will ever figure it out | 15:18 |
| minute | erle: iirc he told us to talk to fsf ryf back then as he did not feel competent to comment on hardware questions | 15:24 |
| erle | ah yeah i remember | 15:25 |
| erle | and then RYF was like “well we need a device to test if you want us to do the certification work” or so and i think it didn't seem worth it, right? | 15:25 |
| Boostisbetter | minute, erle: thanks, I have no desire to speak with him personally. I don't have much in common with him. I don't agree with his viewpoint much, at least not in the way he professes to implement it. | 15:27 |
| erle | oh yeah, i checked the email he sent me in 2019 | 15:27 |
| Boostisbetter | I don't think there is really anything to gain from him on it, but for all his hooting and hollering you would think HE would seek the Reform out himself. | 15:27 |
| erle | the one point of minute is entirely correct, RMS was like “i'm the wrong person to talk to about this, i don't have the background or time, ask RYF if you think it could qualify” | 15:28 |
| erle | the second point was: “the management engine is a hardware backdoor and i wish we could get rid of it – but even if we had the full source code from intel for their stuff, we would not have the technology to fab chips with todays technology” which echos the replicator thing he said | 15:29 |
| erle | Boostisbetter AFAIK RMS does actually have some old netbook he seemed happy with, why seek out something new? | 15:31 |
| erle | and anyways, he is a software and policy guy, so i'd ask him software and policy questions. | 15:32 |
| Boostisbetter | erle: it isn't really about him replacing the hardware he is using, as it is him acknowledging this that directly support his mindset. | 15:32 |
| minute | for me personally RMS is not an ideal figurehead in 2022, so to speak | 15:33 |
| minute | without wanting to get into flamewar territory | 15:33 |
| erle | well, regardless of if he is, cult of personality helps no one, so i think you could leave it at “i'm not the right person to ask” in any case | 15:34 |
| Boostisbetter | Yeah I understand. My issues are with his professional opinions well before the court of opinion had issues with him. | 15:34 |
| Boostisbetter | and basically I just consider him a hypocrite. | 15:34 |
| erle | “i disliked it before it was uncool” is a hipster-take i have not seen before hehe :P | 15:35 |
| erle | ;) | 15:35 |
| erle | if you do that, why would you care about his opinion? | 15:35 |
| Boostisbetter | I think you misunderstand. I don't think my dislike of his professional opinions have anything to do with being a hipster (I despise such a thing if it is one) | 15:36 |
| erle | i was trying to make a joke | 15:36 |
| Boostisbetter | I don't personally care about his opinion, but was merely in a round about way mocking him again for being a hypocrite. | 15:36 |
| Boostisbetter | Here is the Reform, a poster child of what he espouses, and he's mums the word on acknowledging it. | 15:37 |
| erle | but even mocking him is caring about his opinions. | 15:37 |
| Boostisbetter | if you split hairs enough, you'll find there is plenty of hair for everyone. | 15:38 |
| erle | well, i think there is no better answer than “i am not an expert on the topic, but getting rid of the intel management engine thing is good, ask people who are experts” – regardless of what you think of RMS or anyone else, that is a perfectly good answer anyone could give. | 15:38 |
| erle | not everyone needs to chime in on everything | 15:39 |
| erle | and i actually appreciate it if people voluntarily keep to what they are experts on, it leads to better public discourse | 15:39 |
| + minutepkt (~mntmn@p54a436cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 15:41 | |
| minutepkt | sitting on the company couch with pocket reform and wifi stick | 15:41 |
| minutepkt | batteries are now mounted in the device | 15:42 |
| Boostisbetter | he was the frontman for RYF movement, I don't think it is unreasonable to at least have him express enthusiasum or something for it.l | 15:42 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: that is awesome! | 15:42 |
| minutepkt | the speaker is much better than i expected | 15:42 |
| erle | Boostisbetter, i had a relevant experience recently in a discussion about build systems. i started with sth like “please hold your horses if you have never implemented a build system” and inevitably, everyone who had implemented one gave useful answers and everyone who had and had strong opinions was just polluting the issue with uninformed garbage. | 15:43 |
| minutepkt | the sound is better than in big reform tbh | 15:43 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: unexpected bonus huh? Very cool | 15:43 |
| erle | minutepkt how is it better? | 15:43 |
| minutepkt | louder, more bass | 15:43 |
| erle | i meant ”everyone who had not and hat strong opinions was just polluting the issue” | 15:43 |
| Boostisbetter | sure, that can be an issue | 15:43 |
| minutepkt | it is because it is an enclosed module with integrated acoustic box | 15:44 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt, nice! | 15:44 |
| minutepkt | i | 15:44 |
| minutepkt | i tend to forget where the punctuation keys are on this keyboard | 15:44 |
| minutepkt | but getting used to the ortho layout | 15:45 |
| erle | Boostisbetter given laypeople's opinions on gender, vaccinations, geopolitics etc. pp. i am very much a fan of people not pulling an opinion out of thin air. ;) | 15:45 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: You get acclimated faster than you initially think. | 15:45 |
| erle | minutepkt have you compared the ortho layout to the n900 some time? | 15:45 |
| erle | i think it also had ortho | 15:45 |
| minutepkt | the device def has something magical about it | 15:45 |
| minutepkt | i guess because it is smol | 15:46 |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 15:46 | |
| Boostisbetter | erle: cool, not sure i see the relevance to our conversation about the head of an organization at least acknowledging a product that completely supports the organization's mindset. | 15:46 |
| minutepkt | erle: the n900 is for thumb typing right? | 15:46 |
| minutepkt | on pocket you can type using more fingers | 15:47 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: not sure about erle, but that is certianly how I used mine | 15:47 |
| minutepkt | but if you have big hands you can also thumb type on it | 15:47 |
| Boostisbetter | I think I'll be fine on it. I type near full speed on the 1 Netbook Onemix 3pt I have, as well as the Ortho kb on the Penkesu | 15:48 |
| Boostisbetter | I think the Pocket Reform's board will be a sort of luxury in that regard. | 15:48 |
| erle | minutepkt yes and it worked very well, except for the thumb hurting after some time obv | 15:49 |
| Boostisbetter | erle: I still have my N900. I need to update the thing. It is still running the last version of Maemo that Nokia released for it. | 15:49 |
| erle | Boostisbetter IMO for the unqualified head of the organization to know if they should endorse the product, you need to talk to the experts, so i see no issue here except someone not wanting to make unqualified statements. | 15:50 |
| minutepkt | Boostisbetter: cool | 15:50 |
| Boostisbetter | erle: I think we are the same page. I think we are just talk past each other. I am simply saying that for the head of an organization to not even acknowledge the Reform publicly is disappointing, to say the least. That said, I care nothing for his opinion or RYF's mindset. | 15:51 |
| Boostisbetter | while admitting that open hardware and software sure would be nice. | 15:51 |
| Boostisbetter | but, honestly, let's talk about the pocket reform. Much cooler subject. | 15:52 |
| minutepkt | hehe | 15:52 |
| erle | Boostisbetter while i also think we are broadly on the same page: to be disappointed, you need to have expectations. i have none from RMS, so i can not be disappointed ^^ | 15:54 |
| erle | about the pocket reform | 15:54 |
| erle | how big does the pocket need to be? | 15:54 |
| erle | minutepkt do you have a pic of it being in your pocket? | 15:55 |
| minutepkt | you need big pockets | 15:56 |
| minutepkt | maybe some kind of cargo pants | 15:56 |
| minutepkt | tbh it does not fit in most pockets so it is a bit of a misnomer | 15:57 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: I think the term pocket has been misused for so long that it being a misnomer is just kind of understood. From the first renderings and discussions I had no illusions about it fitting in a pocket. | 15:58 |
| vagrantc | almost seems more like the early netbooks in size | 15:59 |
| erle | minutepkt you should have gone with my suggestion of “MNT workboy color” (in before nintendo lawyers descending on me like vultures) | 16:00 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: and that is 100% fine. Pocket does a good of illustrating the primary purpose of it: to be more portable. | 16:00 |
| erle | MNT reform handbag hehe | 16:00 |
| erle | or just put sew-on pockets in the shop, problem solved! | 16:00 |
| erle | minutepkt does the ortho layout have the same amount of keys btw? | 16:01 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: is the battery situation going to be 2 of those 4000maH cells in parallel? | 16:02 |
| minute | Boostisbetter: in series yep | 16:05 |
| minute | so 8000mAh | 16:05 |
| Boostisbetter | very nice | 16:05 |
| vagrantc | guessing that's not lifepo4 | 16:06 |
| erle | why not | 16:07 |
| erle | do you want a spicy pillow? | 16:07 |
| minute | it's LiIon | 16:07 |
| minute | it is spicy pillow | 16:07 |
| erle | spicy pillow time it is then | 16:07 |
| minute | yes | 16:08 |
| minute | but the batteries do not get hot | 16:08 |
| minute | because they are in the bottom with the keyboard | 16:08 |
| Boostisbetter | yeah, that has been my observation as well | 16:08 |
| erle | regardless, i hope they have room to expand if they fail. | 16:08 |
| minute | away from the motherboard heat which is in the top part | 16:08 |
| minute | erle: they would probably pop open the bottom shell | 16:08 |
| erle | sounds good | 16:08 |
| erle | i had a dumbphone fail recently bc the spicy pillow pressed against its internals | 16:08 |
| Boostisbetter | yeah, no really concerned about that myself. They have built voltage control, etc. | 16:09 |
| erle | even without being hot, you always need to care about the expansion that the end-of-life pillow state results in | 16:09 |
| minute | yeah they have built in safeties and our charger has a real protection ic this time | 16:09 |
| erle | if it pops open the bottom shell, it can plop out itself hehe | 16:09 |
| minute | end of pillow | 16:09 |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 16:10 | |
| erle | minute does the reform pocket work as a portable game console? | 16:10 |
| vagrantc | this was to fit more overall power in a smaller space? | 16:10 |
| minute | erle: yes | 16:10 |
| erle | neato | 16:10 |
| minute | let me install a gameboy emulator | 16:11 |
| Boostisbetter | I was going to say, anything the Reform can do, it can do. It is basically a Reform in a smaller format. | 16:12 |
| minutepkt | yes, i am even using the same cpu module at the moment | 16:12 |
| minutepkt | because the adapter for the 8mplus is not done yet | 16:13 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: what is the short and skinny of the 8mplus? More RAM,faster clock speed? | 16:13 |
| erle | Boostisbetter question for a portable game console is also the controls. for example, i own the C.H.I.P. game thingy and it's THE WORST EVER keyboard i have ever had. | 16:14 |
| minutepkt | the main thing is that it is 14 nm instead of 28 | 16:14 |
| erle | at the same time, i have a ~30€ chinese retro console thingy and it's pretty neat (but it does not boot rn, maybe the sd card is corrupted) | 16:15 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: ah so increase power efficiency | 16:15 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: ah so increased power efficiency | 16:15 |
| minutepkt | so cooler/less energy and 1.8ghz instead of 1.5 | 16:15 |
| Boostisbetter | 4gb RAM though right? | 16:15 |
| minutepkt | also yeah more than 4gb ram possible | 16:15 |
| erle | Boostisbetter, if you have not done so, a gameboy emulator installed on the n900 is a pretty good idea, except for battery life | 16:15 |
| minutepkt | no, supports 8 gig | 16:16 |
| minutepkt | not many people know this yet though | 16:16 |
| erle | 64k ought to be enough for anyone ;) | 16:16 |
| erle | minutepkt well now ~80 people def do know! | 16:16 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: that is great. Looking forward to that. Since the Reform uses a PCIe lane for NVME RAM is not SUCH a big deal | 16:16 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: but I would absolutely get the 8gb version if possible. | 16:16 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: So far that is the best upgrade option I've heard. Because the SoC currently being used is very capable, and the plus would just be a solid upgrade for it on nearly ALL fronts. | 16:17 |
| minutepkt | btw resolution of this panel is 1920x1200 | 16:18 |
| erle | refresh rate? | 16:18 |
| erle | i mean not that it matters much for anything else than gaming | 16:19 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 264 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:41c2:c97c:1364:63b1) | 16:19 | |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: so from a cpu and gpu crunching perspective, everything is a known quantity. Should be a very uniform and predictable experience. Which is to say it is going to be great. | 16:20 |
| - Nulo (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~Nulo@user/nulo) | 16:25 | |
| + Nulo (~Nulo@user/nulo) | 16:26 | |
| minutepkt | erle: 60 | 16:31 |
| minutepkt | Boostisbetter: it feels like a good match for the device size | 16:32 |
| minutepkt | we just played some dr mario, it was great | 16:32 |
| Boostisbetter | minutepkt: nah wunderbar! I think it is going to be a very useful little computer. | 16:33 |
| minute | https://twitter.com/minut_e/status/1558100425043484678?t=26y5u7rcZCgVJqK3_GiPng&s=19 video of my coworker playing dr mario on pocket | 16:38 |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:8ebc:7ad0:4cb3:bd5d) | 16:59 | |
| - minutepkt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~mntmn@p54a436cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 17:17 | |
| - GNUmoon2 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 17:34 | |
| + GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 17:46 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 17:47 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 17:48 | |
| + minutepkt (~mntmn@p54a436cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 18:24 | |
| + ajr (~ajr@user/ajr) | 18:43 | |
| - minutepkt (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~mntmn@p54a436cd.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 19:18 | |
| Boostisbetter | minute: Thanks! I love seeing the Pocket in action! | 20:05 |
| Boostisbetter | so the cover is transparent by design. It looks real good. | 20:09 |
| minute | not final | 20:19 |
| + minutepkt (~mntmn@ip-109-42-243-72.web.vodafone.de) | 20:35 | |
| Boostisbetter | Ok, yeah I am going to be getting the aluminum black version when possible. | 21:15 |
| Boostisbetter | minute: and I absolutely love the lid design, how it sudo locks into place when closed. Just excellent design work! | 21:20 |
| Boostisbetter | minute, | 21:21 |
| Boostisbetter | is there more work to be done for the LPC portion or you just haven't gotten there yet? | 21:21 |
| Boostisbetter | minute: also sorry if I a hounding you too much on the Pocket. Hopefully you already quit for the day and the weekend ahead!!! | 21:25 |
| Boostisbetter | minute: also sorry if I am hounding you too much on the Pocket. Hopefully you already quit for the day and the weekend ahead!!! | 21:25 |
| mtm | I, too, am so ready for the Pocket | 21:25 |
| ajr | awesome work! | 21:26 |
| mtm | (ideally with a RISC-V SoM sometime in the future) | 21:26 |
| - cwebber (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~user@user/cwebber) | 21:43 | |
| + mtm- (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 21:47 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 21:48 | |
| - minutepkt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~mntmn@ip-109-42-243-72.web.vodafone.de) | 22:00 | |
| + minutepkt (~mntmn@ip-109-40-243-140.web.vodafone.de) | 22:02 | |
| + cwebber (~user@user/cwebber) | 22:05 | |
| - GNUmoon2 (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 22:10 | |
| + GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 22:10 | |
| - GNUmoon2 (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 22:31 | |
| + GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 22:31 | |
| - buckket (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~buckket@pdp8.buckket.org) | 23:03 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 23:03 | |
| grubman | are there current v3 system image builds? | 23:10 |
| + buckket (~buckket@pdp8.buckket.org) | 23:10 | |
| kfx | josch: https://community.mnt.re/t/will-we-be-able-to-usb-power-mnt-reform/241/19 | 23:11 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:8ebc:7ad0:4cb3:bd5d) | 23:35 | |
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