| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 255 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc12:7400:7267:ab5e:fc89:abf0) | 01:24 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 02:02 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 02:03 | |
| - vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 03:05 | |
| - Nulo (QUIT: Ping timeout: 272 seconds) (~Nulo@user/nulo) | 03:28 | |
| + Nulo (~Nulo@user/nulo) | 03:29 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 04:08 | |
| smj | Hello MNT Reformers. We have 2 MNT Reforms currently in Malaga Spain and we're hacking all week on them. https://ftrv.se/_/photos/ | 04:21 |
|---|---|---|
| smj | so far it has been a lot of fun. | 04:21 |
| smj | Yes there are many ThinkPads, but important features and updates are being made for the Reform in particulra. | 04:22 |
| + rafostar[m]1 (~rafostarm@2001:470:69fc:105::2:52da) | 04:57 | |
| + robin_ (~robin@user/terpri) | 04:57 | |
| + bleb_ (~cm@user/bleb) | 04:59 | |
| + bluerise (~bluerise@p5b0ac1da.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 04:59 | |
| + mlarkin (~mlarkin@047-048-086-214.biz.spectrum.com) | 05:00 | |
| - jfred (QUIT: *.net *.split) (sid534649@libera/sponsor/jfred) | 05:03 | |
| - smoothduck (QUIT: *.net *.split) (sid37490@id-37490.helmsley.irccloud.com) | 05:03 | |
| - bleb (QUIT: *.net *.split) (~cm@user/bleb) | 05:03 | |
| - bluerise_ (QUIT: *.net *.split) (~bluerise@p5b0ac1da.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 05:03 | |
| - mlarkin_ (QUIT: *.net *.split) (~mlarkin@047-048-086-214.biz.spectrum.com) | 05:03 | |
| - robin (QUIT: *.net *.split) (~robin@user/terpri) | 05:03 | |
| - rafostar[m] (QUIT: *.net *.split) (~rafostarm@2001:470:69fc:105::2:52da) | 05:03 | |
| * bleb_ -> bleb | 05:03 | |
| + jfred (sid534649@libera/sponsor/jfred) | 05:06 | |
| + smoothduck (sid37490@id-37490.helmsley.irccloud.com) | 05:18 | |
| - ajr (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.6) (~ajr@user/ajr) | 05:49 | |
| - GNUmoon2 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 06:23 | |
| - cwebber (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~user@user/cwebber) | 07:10 | |
| + cwebber (~user@user/cwebber) | 07:11 | |
| - cwebber (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~user@user/cwebber) | 07:18 | |
| josch | kfx: thanks for the adafruit link! Do you have a forum account? If not I could post that link in https://community.mnt.re/t/will-we-be-able-to-usb-power-mnt-reform/241 | 08:20 |
| * hl_ -> hl | 08:38 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-021-040.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 09:05 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.5) (~MajorBisc@c-001-021-040.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 09:11 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-021-040.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 09:11 | |
| kfx | josch: I do have a forum account -- I have ordered all variants of that cable, and when they arrive and I verify they work I'll make a post about it | 09:12 |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc12:7400:755f:cb3e:e77d:78e6) | 09:22 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc12:7400:755f:cb3e:e77d:78e6) | 09:39 | |
| - chartreus (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~chartreus@node-1w7jr9ql2247ulxzt91eckjma.ipv6.telus.net) | 10:22 | |
| * yankcrim- -> yankcrime | 10:24 | |
| josch | kfx: cool, thanks! :) | 10:28 |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:ef00:5da3:5948:b4:5053) | 11:36 | |
| - qwer (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~qwer@78-80-98-126.customers.tmcz.cz) | 11:48 | |
| + qwer (~qwer@78-80-98-126.customers.tmcz.cz) | 12:01 | |
| + aliosablack (~chomwitt@ppp-94-67-201-122.home.otenet.gr) | 12:26 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:ef00:5da3:5948:b4:5053) | 12:27 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 14:02 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 14:07 | |
| minute | josch: thanks for your MRs! | 14:10 |
| minute | josch: looks like freecad is in dependency hell, i guess we should remove it for now https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-system-image/-/jobs/861#L5215 | 14:10 |
| vkoskiv_ | minute: Yeah, the demoparty. | 14:17 |
| + cwebber (~user@user/cwebber) | 14:22 | |
| minute | vkoskiv_: well that's cool, did you present something there? | 14:27 |
| vkoskiv_ | No, just a visitor. | 14:33 |
| vkoskiv_ | I had my Mac Plus + the Reform there | 14:33 |
| minute | ah nice | 14:34 |
| josch | minute: a new glibc version has recently been uploaded and this already broke lots of stuff. Instead of just ignoring freecad I'd like to investigate the problem and file appropriate bugs so that the situation gets fixed. Unfortunately I cannot reproduce this locally at all. Could you (temporarily) accept this MR to try and find out what problem apt is seeing? | 14:52 |
| josch | https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-system-image/-/merge_requests/57 | 14:52 |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~MajorBisc@c-001-021-040.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 14:53 | |
| minute | josch: merged! | 14:57 |
| josch | cool, lets see what happens :) | 14:58 |
| - aliosablack (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~chomwitt@ppp-94-67-201-122.home.otenet.gr) | 15:02 | |
| + GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 15:06 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@2a02-a461-129d-1-193d-75d8-745d-e91e.fixed6.kpn.net) | 15:11 | |
| + Major_Biscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-021-040.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 15:15 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~MajorBisc@2a02-a461-129d-1-193d-75d8-745d-e91e.fixed6.kpn.net) | 15:16 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 15:18 | |
| - Major_Biscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~MajorBisc@c-001-021-040.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 15:31 | |
| josch | minute: thank you, I now know why it happens and can reproduce it and file the right bugs. You can revert it now: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-system-image/-/merge_requests/58/diffs | 15:33 |
| + Major_Biscuit (~MajorBisc@2a02:a461:129d:1:193d:75d8:745d:e91e) | 15:35 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 15:35 | |
| - Major_Biscuit (QUIT: Client Quit) (~MajorBisc@2a02:a461:129d:1:193d:75d8:745d:e91e) | 15:36 | |
| josch | minute: the problem only shows when you try to install kicad and freecad at the same time. To solve this, freecad needs to be rebuilt against the new opencascade version but this cannot happen yet because freecad fails to build from source because of a different problem https://bugs.debian.org/1014875 -- I suggest to remove freecad because it's bugs are not getting fixed and thus it even has been | 15:43 |
| josch | removed from Debian testing. So as of now, freecad will not be part of the next Debian stable release. | 15:43 |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-021-040.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 15:43 | |
| josch | Another solution to this problem would be to build the reform-system-image from testing instead of unstable but then we'd not find interesting new bugs as they get uploaded to unstable early on anymore... | 15:43 |
| - Boostisbetter (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (4a410829d7@irc.cheogram.com) | 15:43 | |
| + Boostisbetter (4a410829d7@irc.cheogram.com) | 15:44 | |
| vagrantc | oh yeah, i was surprised by the choice of unstable ... just puttering around on my mnt/reform yesterday looking at installing to NVMe ... | 15:49 |
| vagrantc | also noticed xwayland came from a mnt.re repository ... the debian/changelog doesn't really say much about what changes are done compared to the debian version they're based on | 15:51 |
| josch | vagrantc: what is your opinion on https://salsa.debian.org/installer-team/flash-kernel/-/merge_requests/33 ? | 15:55 |
| josch | vagrantc: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-debian-packages/-/blob/main/patches/xwayland and yes, a better changelog entry should be generated as well | 15:56 |
| vagrantc | josch: regarding the flash-kernel merge request ... stop using flash-kernel? :) | 15:58 |
| vagrantc | what does mnt/reform need flash-kernel for still? | 15:58 |
| josch | vagrantc: use efi instead? | 15:58 |
| vagrantc | josch: efi or u-boot-menu | 15:58 |
| josch | vagrantc: we use flash-kernel to generate a boot.scr | 15:59 |
| vagrantc | admittedly a little bit of a flippant response, but ... despite sort of being the defacto maintainer of flash-kernel i'm not a fan | 15:59 |
| josch | of what? | 16:00 |
| + xktr (~xktr@2a0a-e5c0-2-12-0-f0ff-fea9-c3dc.loves.ipv6.at.ungleich.ch) | 16:02 | |
| - GNUmoon2 (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 16:04 | |
| minute | josch: alright, thanks, i remember now running into this myself (manually) at some point. removing freecad is ok for me, i think almost none of our users need that preinstalled. | 16:05 |
| vagrantc | josch: of flash-kernel | 16:05 |
| vagrantc | josch: i'll comment on the merge request though ... feel free to ping me in salsa in the future on similar issues | 16:05 |
| josch | vagrantc: i have no attachment to flash-kernel but i think it will not be easy to migrate toward u-boot-menu which (I think?) works via creating an extlinux.conf. The problem is that the default u-boot of the reform doesn't read extlinux.conf so if we want to use that mechanism via u-boot-menu we first have to migrate all reform users to a newer u-boot version or otherwise their system won't boot after | 16:07 |
| josch | an "apt upgrade" | 16:07 |
| josch | vagrantc: thank you, i just didn't want to be a bother XD | 16:08 |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 16:08 | |
| vagrantc | josch: could re-implement a simplified version of flash-kernel that just does what you want ... | 16:11 |
| vagrantc | actually, that gives me an idea for how to dramatically simplify flash-kernel | 16:11 |
| vagrantc | or at least a complete re-write | 16:12 |
| josch | vagrantc: for the situation at hand i'd also put my time into writing a proper solution for this efi situation if you tell me how you would like to see this solved | 16:12 |
| vagrantc | josch: i don't see a good way to solve it ... there are design problems in flash-kernel assumptions | 16:13 |
| vagrantc | and on top of that, it's a mess of spaghetti code | 16:14 |
| josch | vagrantc: maybe there could be a temporary solution like a check for a magic file somewhere, an environment variable or a config file option? Right now I don't think there is anything that we can do to make flash-kernel produce a boot.scr on systems with efi other than patch flash-kernel. | 16:15 |
| vagrantc | josch: i commented on the proposed change, but basically the debian-installer uses flash-kernel inside a chroot, so we'd be back to square one | 16:15 |
| josch | then i guess the initial reason that led to this change was, that a user that used debian-installer with flash-kernel had a boot.scr produced even thought they ran debian-installer on an efi system? | 16:16 |
| vagrantc | i think disecting and separating the various functions of flash-kernel into separate packages could be useful ... e.g. device-tree copying, boot.scr generation, etc. | 16:16 |
| vagrantc | josch: yes | 16:16 |
| josch | okay, then now i finally understand why my MR would fix one regression but re-open another problem | 16:17 |
| josch | vagrantc: thank you for explaining :) | 16:18 |
| vagrantc | josch: admittedly, this mess is sort of my fault ... when u-boot's distro_bootcmd grew EFI support, i insisted it be added to the boot options at the end so it would preserve previous behavior | 16:18 |
| vagrantc | but ... maybe that was the wrong choice | 16:18 |
| josch | okay, then i guess we'll patch flash-kernel for a while longer and try to get u-boot with distro_bootcmd on reform users' systems | 16:19 |
| josch | and in the long term switch to booting with extlinux.conf | 16:19 |
| + aliosablack (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:4013:2028:e3f3:d52d) | 16:20 | |
| josch | re-implementing a simplified version of flash-kernel that just does what I want is another option but it would be far more work and far more error-prone than just continue patching flash-kernel | 16:20 |
| vagrantc | the only other option i see is to write a flash-kernel configuration option, and then use that option | 16:20 |
| vagrantc | josch: that's why i haven't rewritten flash-kernel all these years, but each bug that comes along makes me reconsider :) | 16:21 |
| vagrantc | josch: then you could just have a custom /etc/flash-kernel/machine (or whatever that file is called) entry for mnt/reform | 16:21 |
| vagrantc | things-you-know-should-be-different-but-really-cannot-be-bothered-right-now | 16:23 |
| + qbit (~qbit@h.suah.dev) | 16:23 | |
| vagrantc | josch: so if i understand correctly ... mnt/reform uses a boot.scr still because of older u-boot installed on systems in the wild? | 16:25 |
| vagrantc | josch: there is a u-boot version that could support extlinux, but it's not yet the default? | 16:25 |
| minute | ooc, what's the benefit of extlinux vs bootscr? | 16:27 |
| vagrantc | honestly, this is a pretty trivial hook to replace flash-kernel ... just copy all (or a select set of) the .dtb files from the kernel-to-be-installed (there's a hook for that in u-boot-menu examples), and then generate a boot.scr ... you'll want hooks in the stuff initramfs-tools and the kernel uses on installation (maybe a trigger?) | 16:27 |
| vagrantc | minute: it doesn't entice you to use flash-kernel? :) | 16:28 |
| vagrantc | the advantages of a boot.scr, is you can actually write fairly complicated scripts, but ... i don't think you're using that functionality | 16:28 |
| vagrantc | extlinux also presents a simple menu, though that's of limited functionality currently without a serial console | 16:29 |
| vagrantc | but it's much easier to revert to an older kernel if a kernel upgrade breaks something | 16:30 |
| minute | vagrantc: before flash-kernel, i just had a script that would replace a .dtb on the disk | 16:30 |
| minute | i do not know how flash-kernel works in detail etc | 16:30 |
| vagrantc | you don't want to | 16:30 |
| minute | ah but there was also no initramfs before | 16:31 |
| minute | so i had a bit hacky custom init script that would then pivot and exec the real one | 16:31 |
| vagrantc | and a single kernel boot option | 16:31 |
| minute | (pivot to desired root disk) | 16:31 |
| vagrantc | right | 16:31 |
| minute | yeah there was no kernel choice | 16:31 |
| minute | and no way to upgrade the kernel via packages | 16:31 |
| vagrantc | ACTION is much happier with the newer mnt/reform images :) | 16:32 |
| - aliosablack (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:4013:2028:e3f3:d52d) | 16:39 | |
| + aliosablack (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc15:5e00:ea1e:e5c0:de8:53e2) | 16:40 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 16:41 | |
| josch | vagrantc: yesthere is a u-boot version that could support extlinux, but it's not yet the default and it's also not installed on systems in the wild and there is no good way to upgrade u-boot of our users :/ | 16:56 |
| josch | vagrantc: and yes, we don't do any magic in boot.scr -- in fact we just use bootscr.uboot-generic | 17:01 |
| josch | vagrantc: i already tested booting debian via extlinux.conf which works just fine as one would expect | 17:01 |
| josch | completely different topic: | 17:08 |
| josch | there is no free usb port on the inside of the reform case, correct? | 17:08 |
| + lexik (~lexik@171.25.222.217) | 17:15 | |
| minute | josch: correct, but one could make a contraption with usb nanohub on one of the input connectors | 17:18 |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 17:36 | |
| josch | minute: thanks -- i already found the nano hub but that one has been unavailable for months now so i'll instead buy a normal hub and remove the housing and hope that it fits even if i have to de-solder the plugs... | 17:58 |
| minute | ah oh | 18:02 |
| minute | josch: what kind of device do you want to connect? | 18:03 |
| josch | minute: an usb lte/umts modem | 18:03 |
| josch | i found one that fits inside the case after removing its housing | 18:04 |
| kfx | minute: there's nothing hacky about /sbin/reform-init, it was fine and life is easier without an initrd | 18:15 |
| kfx | I understand the drawbacks but if you don't run debian there's not a ton of benefit to the alternatives :) | 18:17 |
| minute | josch: ah, interesting! | 18:17 |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 18:58 | |
| + ajr (~ajr@user/ajr) | 19:10 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 19:14 | |
| josch | where do people usually buy a Laird EFD2455A3S? digikey currently doesn't accept new orders and mouser has free shipping if one orders more than 50 USD but below that asks for 20 USD shipping... :( | 19:38 |
| - cwebber (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~user@user/cwebber) | 20:10 | |
| - eschaton (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~eschaton@li541-49.members.linode.com) | 20:11 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 20:20 | |
| + eschaton (eschaton@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fefd:5d92) | 20:49 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~MajorBisc@c-001-021-040.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 20:58 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@2a02-a461-129d-1-193d-75d8-745d-e91e.fixed6.kpn.net) | 21:00 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.5) (~MajorBisc@2a02-a461-129d-1-193d-75d8-745d-e91e.fixed6.kpn.net) | 21:06 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 22:27 | |
| + cwebber (~user@user/cwebber) | 22:40 | |
| minute | josch: i can order one for you in my next mouser order | 22:41 |
| + GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) | 23:28 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@static-198-54-135-69.cust.tzulo.com) | 23:54 | |
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