| littlebobeep | Also does the NXP LPC11U24 function as a PMU? Where is the firmware for this stored and can I upgrade it? | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| dustfinger | I found it: https://source.mnt.re/reform/mnt-reform-layerscape-ls1028a-som | 00:07 |
| dustfinger | No commits in a while though. | 00:08 |
| dustfinger | I also found this: https://hackaday.com/2021/08/26/hands-on-mnt-reforms-the-laptop/ | 00:09 |
| littlebobeep | NXP LS1028A SOC probably has a different eDP controller, I wonder if this requires proprietary firmware blob?? | 00:19 |
| vagrantc | there are also the adapter cards for the raspberry pi CM4 form-factor (which includes an 8GB rk35?? one from pine64.org) | 00:22 |
| kfx | littlebobeep: the 'leather' is pinatex, made from pineapple plant fibers: https://www.panaprium.com/blogs/i/pinatex-pineapple-leather | 00:24 |
| kfx | littlebobeep: keyboard, trackball, and trackpad firmware are in https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/tree/master/reform2-keyboard-fw, https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/tree/master/reform2-trackball-fw, and https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform/-/tree/master/reform2-trackpad-fw, respectively | 00:26 |
| - Christoph_ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Christoph@p54bf648a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 00:27 | |
| - vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 00:44 | |
| + reform21309 (~trimbeej@2601:545:8202:19d0::340d) | 01:24 | |
| - reform21309 (QUIT: Client Quit) (~trimbeej@2601:545:8202:19d0::340d) | 01:27 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 02:02 | |
| - mjw (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~mark@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 02:22 | |
| jfred | I'm holding out for one of those white pinatex sleeves that was shown in a recent interview | 02:26 |
| jfred | looked real nice | 02:26 |
| - erle (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~erle@ip5f5bd59a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) | 03:16 | |
| - Guest974 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~nicolas@218-49-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 03:57 | |
| + nsc (~nicolas@201-48-142-46.pool.kielnet.net) | 03:59 | |
| * nsc -> Guest4578 | 04:00 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 04:08 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 04:23 | |
| - sts-q (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~sts-q@2a01:41e1:2ec0:8800:96d:481f:3874:2dda) | 04:35 | |
| + sts-q (~sts-q@2a01:41e1:2ef2:400:1ad6:1c6e:b2e4:d055) | 04:38 | |
| + erle (~erle@95.91.213.154) | 05:04 | |
| + mtm- (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 05:04 | |
| - vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 05:05 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 05:08 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 06:15 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 07:05 | |
| - mtm- (QUIT: Ping timeout: 276 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 07:07 | |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 07:33 | |
| littlebobeep | . | 07:37 |
| littlebobeep | So anyone know about HDMI output requirements of either the i.MX8MQ or LS1028A? need proprietary firmware for neither, one, or both?? | 07:49 |
| littlebobeep | But, I do wonder if it really is fully blob free since Librem 5 is also imx8 based, and they needed to put a binary blob (for RAM initialization) on a dedicated MCU core that is not loaded at runtime, to meet the letter of the guidelines for FSF’s “respects your freedom” certification. Not sure it really meets the spirit, though. Maybe specific to the version of the SoC that they used. | 07:52 |
| littlebobeep | Anyone know about this also ^ | 07:52 |
| + mtm- (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 08:18 | |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 08:22 | |
| littlebobeep | Are there any compatible touchscreen displays? | 08:23 |
| littlebobeep | https://hackaday.com/2021/08/26/hands-on-mnt-reforms-the-laptop/#comment-6375592 | 08:34 |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@2a02-a461-129d-1-193d-75d8-745d-e91e.fixed6.kpn.net) | 08:48 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 09:08 | |
| josch | it would help if littlebobeep stayed around for a while longer ;) | 09:09 |
| josch | sigrid: with the help of vagrantc I enabled distro_bootcmd for reform u-boot yesterday and filed a MR: https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-boundary-uboot/-/merge_requests/6/ Theoretically it shouldn't break void linux but I wanted to give you a heads-up in case you want to give it a spin. | 09:12 |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 09:14 | |
| Asmadeus | rather than playing with bootcmd I've been wondering about UEFI support in uboot, it apparently can do it so it should be possible to just chain to an unified kernel image or grub or systemd boot or whatever | 09:16 |
| Asmadeus | that'd allow most distros to just work™ without having to worry about this part, but I guess it's also not that difficult to just update the bootcmd as appropriate and If It Works Don't Touch It is quite strong | 09:17 |
| kfx | "if it works don't touch it" is what kills ARM devices | 09:17 |
| Asmadeus | Well, at least we have all the sources to update the reform, it's not really the same as e.g. this stupid phone I've been trying to make volte work with a custom rom for the past three days because samsung didn't release their ims implementation... | 09:22 |
| littlebobeep | Asmadeus: What is ims? | 09:37 |
| Asmadeus | apparently "IP multimedia subsystem", it's used to make phone calls over LTE (to get the settings from the carrier? or something) | 09:38 |
| Asmadeus | I've just started looking at it last week and there apparently are as many closed implementations as there are vendors, so lineageos and friends are pulling their hair out... and after having spent some time trying to understand how it works I'm not faring much better | 09:40 |
| Asmadeus | Anyway, that's completely off topic, but if someone can get this to work I'll be more than happy to spend time looking at UEFI in uboot instead :D | 09:43 |
| littlebobeep | Asmadeus: So what exactly does UEFI support provide that you can't have with the default bootloader? | 09:47 |
| kfx | one may aspire to standards | 09:50 |
| Asmadeus | just that, yes. Easier setup for other distros, possibly easier support for secure boot? The habv4 nxp-specific secure boot procedure is also far from standard but if uefi works then it comes with its own secure boot which is also standard (although uboot itself still needs validating with their non-standard stuff..) | 09:56 |
| Asmadeus | allow switching between multiple distros more easily, too | 09:59 |
| Asmadeus | well, stuff. | 09:59 |
| - mlarkin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 272 seconds) (~mlarkin@047-048-086-214.biz.spectrum.com) | 10:03 | |
| josch | Asmadeus: while this is all well, I think what should absolutely have priority is to get reform support into upstream u-boot and upstream kernel. Otherwise, independent of uefi or not, we are stuck with "if it works don't touch it" as kfx put it. | 10:09 |
| + mlarkin (~mlarkin@047-048-086-214.biz.spectrum.com) | 10:09 | |
| + littlebo1eep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 10:15 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 10:15 | |
| dustfinger | I am also interested in knowing the answer's to littlebobeep's questions. | 10:26 |
| josch | I guess minute is the one who can give the most authoritative answers to littlebo1eep | 10:28 |
| josch | minute: could you also quickly trigger the sysimage-v3 pipeline for reform-system-image? See https://community.mnt.re/t/mnt-reform-system-image-v3-beta/744/54 for context. Thanks! | 10:30 |
| kfx | josch: completely agree. quirks in mainline are way more survivable than bespoke quirks :) | 10:37 |
| - mtm- (QUIT: Ping timeout: 248 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 10:58 | |
| - littlebo1eep (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 11:00 | |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 11:11 | |
| minute | josch: i'm back, let me see | 12:33 |
| minute | new build running https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-system-image/-/pipelines/588 | 12:35 |
| + Christoph_ (~Christoph@p54bf60c5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 12:38 | |
| + mjw (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:9e5c:8eff:fe8f:a440) | 12:48 | |
| littlebobeep | "the laptop doesn’t go to sleep when you close the lid, and it doesn’t include any kind of low-power alerts or battery-saver mode" | 12:54 |
| littlebobeep | Is this still true ^ | 12:54 |
| littlebobeep | The system controller is always drawing power from the main batteries, whether the laptop is on or off. | 12:55 |
| littlebobeep | What is the reason for this ^ | 12:56 |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~MajorBisc@2a02-a461-129d-1-193d-75d8-745d-e91e.fixed6.kpn.net) | 12:56 | |
| minute | littlebobeep: well, we have deep sleep for the keyboard and system controller since a while | 13:00 |
| littlebobeep | Hmmmm so my paste about Librem 5 needing proprietary blob for RAM init blob is relevent to the Reform: Synopsys DDR4 calibration firmware lpddr4_pmu_train_*.bin (no source available) | 13:03 |
| littlebobeep | So it's impossible to boot the machine without this proprietary blob... does the SOM with LS1028A and 16GB RAM have this boot freedom problem as well? What about the FPGA option (not sure what model it is and if supported by libre FPGA flow chain like f4pga) | 13:05 |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 13:07 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 13:10 | |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 13:10 | |
| minute | littlebobeep: correct, same blob. LS1028A does not have it | 13:15 |
| minute | littlebobeep: LS1028A needs a blob for displayport TX though. my idea to make a RYF(or whatever) option is to combine LS1028A+an fpga or other framebuffer mpcie card | 13:15 |
| minute | the gpu does not need a blob so it might be possible to render to pcie space | 13:16 |
| minute | the Kintex-7 board is more experimental, and the toolchain is not (yet) fully free but there are some efforts to liberate 7-series bitstream, i'm not sure how usable it is atm | 13:17 |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@wlan-145-94-232-218.wlan.tudelft.nl) | 13:51 | |
| bluerise | damn jetlag | 13:59 |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 14:03 | |
| - Christoph_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~Christoph@p54bf60c5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 14:26 | |
| + Christoph_ (~Christoph@p4fe73c73.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 14:31 | |
| + Christoph__ (~Christoph@p4fe73c79.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 14:35 | |
| - Christoph_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~Christoph@p4fe73c73.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 14:37 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~MajorBisc@wlan-145-94-232-218.wlan.tudelft.nl) | 15:09 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@wlan-145-94-232-218.wlan.tudelft.nl) | 15:21 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 15:34 | |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 15:35 | |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 16:10 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 16:19 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~MajorBisc@wlan-145-94-232-218.wlan.tudelft.nl) | 16:41 | |
| josch | is there anybody here who cares about blender? | 16:48 |
| josch | ./source/blender/imbuf/intern/oiio/openimageio_api.cpp:246: error: undefined reference to 'OpenImageIO_v2_3::TypeDesc::basesize() const' | 16:48 |
| josch | the world moved on and we are still trying to keep the old version alive which eats my time every time something breaks | 16:48 |
| josch | maybe somebody who needs blender on the reform can take care of keeping it alive? | 16:49 |
| josch | i'm disabling it now because i need the other packages to build and currently blender makes the whole reform-debian-packages pipeline fail | 16:49 |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@wlan-145-94-232-218.wlan.tudelft.nl) | 16:55 | |
| minute | josch: ok, lets get rid of it then | 16:59 |
| kfx | josch: iirc there was some Flag Day in blender past which version it requires a GL that Reform does not support | 17:01 |
| josch | kfx: yes, that's why we carry 1806 lines of patch to make old blender build on a modern system | 17:02 |
| minute | i wonder if GeForce 8400GS with 128MB would work in reform | 17:11 |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~MajorBisc@wlan-145-94-232-218.wlan.tudelft.nl) | 18:18 | |
| josch | minute: could you re-trigger the reform-system-image sysimage-v3 pipeline again? I think I found the reason why the generated image wasn't bootable. | 19:01 |
| sigrid | josch: does extlinux.conf work with uboot out of the box? | 19:04 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:9e5c:8eff:fe8f:a440) | 19:13 | |
| josch | sigrid: now it does | 19:15 |
| josch | well, with that not-yet-merged MR I linked to | 19:15 |
| sigrid | ok, thanks for giving me a notice. I shall learn about this distro_bootcmd thingy | 19:17 |
| josch | sigrid: if everything goes as expected, you don't have to change anything :) | 19:34 |
| josch | I think the best docs are in doc/README.distro in the u-boot sources and vagrantc once he is online again. :) | 19:35 |
| sigrid | I think I'd like to adapt to that, but then again I have no clue when I will have the time | 19:36 |
| sigrid | the branch I have is on tag v3 of u-boot, so the merge won't affect me anyway | 19:37 |
| josch | ah indeed -- yes, the tagging was useful :) | 19:37 |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 19:39 | |
| josch | speak of the devil ;) | 19:39 |
| minute | josch: i shall retrigger the latest pipeline yes? | 19:52 |
| josch | minute: yes, the changes are in the reform-debian-packages repo | 19:53 |
| sigrid | re blender: I tried latest version of blender with llvmpipe and it's terribly slow on the reform :D | 19:54 |
| Boostisbetter | sigrid, was it ever fast on the Reform? | 19:56 |
| sigrid | idk. I never tried blender before | 19:57 |
| vagrantc | ACTION waves | 20:00 |
| Boostisbetter | sigrid, ok, that makes sense. I would be interested in getting it working, but it is possible the GPU is just not powerful enough to give us much more. It isn't exactly like the Blender development is focusing lower power ARM SoCs. | 20:01 |
| josch | I also ended up restoring blender support... just 90 lines more to the diff... | 20:02 |
| sknebel | probably doesnt apply to the imx8 yet, but an interesting thing is Zink - a OpenGL driver implemented against Vulkan. with how mobile-centric chips are going, that might have better OpenGL support on some platforms than the driver directly | 20:07 |
| sknebel | since in many cases they only care about openGL ES | 20:08 |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 20:13 | |
| minute | Boostisbetter: the 2.79 version was perfectly usable, but alas it is not being maintained anymore | 20:13 |
| minute | josch: oh cool :3 | 20:13 |
| littlebobeep | minute: thanks for responding a couple questions, sadly I got disconnected and might've missed other discussions | 20:14 |
| josch | littlebobeep: https://mntre.com/reform-irc-logs/ | 20:15 |
| Boostisbetter | minute: is it possible to still get this version? | 20:16 |
| minute | Boostisbetter: if i understood correctly, josch kept it alive for now, so it should be in the repo | 20:16 |
| littlebobeep | When you say LS1028A needs a blob for DisplayPort does this affect the internal LCD as well as video out on external connector/port? Is this NXP's fault or is the video out logic block and firmware actually from another company? If you use an mpcie card to get around this, is there actually space for this on the SOM (I still want the primary motherboard mpcie for WLAN)? | 20:16 |
| littlebobeep | minute: What is the motivation for choosing an FPGA not supported by flow tools like f4pga? | 20:18 |
| littlebobeep | I'm not that educated about GPU design to the point I do not understand why a GPU does not need a blob for the drivers but there *is* one needed just to get video out, which seems like a GPU's job | 20:22 |
| minute | littlebobeep: GPU and display pipelines are completely different IPs in these chips | 20:28 |
| minute | littlebobeep: the GPU just renders to shared memory. another IP block scans that out to displays. | 20:28 |
| josch | Boostisbetter: blender temporarily dropped out of the repo because I disabled it today. If https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-debian-packages/-/pipelines/598 succeeds it will be back in the repo soon enough. | 20:29 |
| minute | cool | 20:29 |
| minute | thanks for the effort! | 20:29 |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 20:31 | |
| josch | :) | 20:31 |
| josch | ah whoops, of course the reform-system-image pipeline fails now that blender isn't in the repo anymore -- I'll have to ping you again later to re-trigger it once the repo updated XD | 20:34 |
| minute | sure :D | 20:34 |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 20:40 | |
| mlarkin | re | 20:43 |
| Boostisbetter | josch, so we'll be able to install that version of blender as soon as it is back in the repo? | 20:44 |
| josch | Boostisbetter: yes | 20:44 |
| + littlebo1eep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 20:49 | |
| - bluerise (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~bluerise@user/bluerise) | 20:50 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 20:53 | |
| - littlebo1eep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 20:57 | |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 21:02 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 21:14 | |
| + bluerise (~bluerise@user/bluerise) | 21:31 | |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 21:57 | |
| + mjw (~mark@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 22:07 | |
| - littlebobeep (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 22:09 | |
| + littlebobeep (~alMalsamo@gateway/tor-sasl/almalsamo) | 22:15 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Quit: With every step we take, danger will follow closely) (~Thunderbi@66.115.189.236) | 22:37 | |
| - vagrantc (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~vagrant@2600:3c01:e000:21:7:77:0:20) | 22:39 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.115.189.236) | 22:44 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Thunderbi@66.115.189.236) | 22:44 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.115.189.236) | 23:03 | |
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| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.115.189.236) | 23:12 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Thunderbi@66.115.189.236) | 23:43 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@66.115.189.236) | 23:44 | |
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