| - Christoph_ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Christoph@p54bf68b7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 00:07 | |
| - verx (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~verx@matrix.16bit.dev) | 01:00 | |
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| * nsc -> Guest6367 | 04:01 | |
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| * arminweigl_ -> arminweigl | 06:46 | |
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| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 09:40 | |
| * nsc -> Guest6531 | 09:40 | |
| - verx (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~verx@matrix.16bit.dev) | 09:40 | |
| + verx (~verx@matrix.16bit.dev) | 09:40 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc03:8900:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374) | 10:14 | |
| - kklimonda (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (sid72883@user/kklimonda) | 10:42 | |
| + kklimonda (sid72883@user/kklimonda) | 10:42 | |
| Boostisbetter | just as a side point, the binding and rebinding of the keyboard and trackball don't appear to have an effect on the reliability of the standby script. | 11:52 |
|---|---|---|
| + jryans (~jryans@2001:470:69fc:105::1d) | 11:52 | |
| + Lewis[m] (~lewislewi@2001:470:69fc:105::e363) | 11:52 | |
| + nio (~nio@2001:470:69fc:105::172d) | 11:52 | |
| + maxim[m] (~maximtchn@2001:470:69fc:105::1f39) | 11:52 | |
| Boostisbetter | What I'm noticing is that time is the biggest indicator or success. IE: the longer the Reform is suspended the more likely resume will not work properly. | 11:53 |
| Boostisbetter | *of success | 11:55 |
| Boostisbetter | Anyway, hope everyone is doing well today! | 12:34 |
| Boostisbetter | mntmn: how was that vegan pizza you made? | 12:35 |
| - mtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 13:04 | |
| + mjw (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:9e5c:8eff:fe8f:a440) | 13:05 | |
| + Christoph_ (~Christoph@p54bf6392.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) | 13:37 | |
| - vkoskiv_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~vkoskiv@89-166-62-97.bb.dnainternet.fi) | 14:07 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.4) (~MajorBisc@c-001-028-049.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 14:34 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-028-049.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 14:35 | |
| Boostisbetter | does anyone use their Reform with encrypted drives? does it impact performance greatly? | 14:55 |
| + mtm (~mtm@c-73-27-62-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) | 15:09 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.4) (~MajorBisc@c-001-028-049.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 15:15 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-028-049.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 15:16 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 3.4) (~MajorBisc@c-001-028-049.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 15:22 | |
| + MajorBiscuit (~MajorBisc@c-001-028-049.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 15:22 | |
| + mark_ (~mark@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 15:39 | |
| mark_ | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/01/review-mnt-reform-laptop-has-fully-open-hardware-and-software-for-better-or-worse/ | 15:41 |
| mntmn | > Slow ARM CPU almost single-handedly derails an intriguing laptop experiment | 15:47 |
| mntmn | sigh | 15:47 |
| mntmn | ok | 15:47 |
| Boostisbetter | sadly the Reform was never meant for the casual user. While I can't fault the reviewer for that remark, I have found that it is surprisingly more capable than that review made it out to be. | 15:49 |
| Boostisbetter | Also he looked to have one of the very first models. His acryllic plate were bulging at the bottom, and mine doesn't do that at all. it is completely flush and looks like a serious piece of kit. | 15:49 |
| Boostisbetter | BUT I do think it is great that Reform got Arstechnica coverage. | 15:52 |
| mark_ | And the reviewer does admit the reform shouldn't really be reviewed like this | 15:53 |
| mark_ | of course then the review still does :) | 15:53 |
| mntmn | hehe yeah | 15:54 |
| mark_ | I am slightly disappointed by "The Reform not only refuses to hold your hand; it refuses to acknowledge the existence of hand-holding in the first place." | 15:55 |
| mark_ | Which isn't my experience | 15:55 |
| mark_ | but then I don't mind asking dumb questions here | 15:55 |
| mark_ | And I think the forum is delightful. | 15:56 |
| Boostisbetter | You have to remember how tech sites make money. They pander to the obvious audience and sell ad revenue | 15:56 |
| mark_ | Maybe it is intimidating though. | 15:56 |
| Boostisbetter | check the logs here. Just over the weekend I ask a slew of pretty stupid questions. | 15:57 |
| mark_ | sure, sure, but still, disappointing the community aspect isn't appreciated (are we too scary?) | 15:57 |
| mntmn | yeah | 15:58 |
| mntmn | the crypto bar in the geekbench is interesting | 15:58 |
| mark_ | I also wonder what the reviewer was running. | 16:01 |
| mark_ | Probably some electron based applications. | 16:01 |
| mark_ | I am using my reform as main development machine now and don't have any complaints (or, ok, compiling larger projects could be faster...) | 16:02 |
| Boostisbetter | The idea that something is slow or incapable because you have to wait for things to load is just silly. It is obvious he was running the OS off the SD card, but moving to an SSD GREATLY improves the snappyness of the Reform. | 16:02 |
| mark_ | I might confine myself mostly to terminals of course and have noscript installed for firefox. | 16:02 |
| Boostisbetter | If you are a terminal warrior than the Reform will be excellent for you. But I am not a terminal warrior. I have 5 workspaces in use at all times on the Reform. There is only 1 terminal open, and the Reform runs just fine! | 16:03 |
| mark_ | right, the reviewer even mentions that, but only after complaining about slowness | 16:03 |
| Boostisbetter | I can have all of that open and still play Doom and Wolfenstein 3d on workspace 6 | 16:04 |
| mark_ | I have 4, mail (terminals with mutt), firefox, development terminals and hexchat (irc) | 16:04 |
| Boostisbetter | I have a Framework laptop actually. And the Reform has spoiled me. That trackball on a laptop is so much more useful. | 16:05 |
| Boostisbetter | 1 - Vivaldi (browsing with about 12 tabs open), 2 - Vivaldi (another window with 5 tabs open (2 rocket chat instance, threema, whatsapp, and discord), Dino, and Signal, 3 - Evolution (with 7 mail accounts), 4 MS Code, 5 Lollypop, Terminal | 16:06 |
| + vkoskiv (~vkoskiv@89-166-62-97.bb.dnainternet.fi) | 16:07 | |
| vkoskiv | Blargh, server crashed due to power outage. Lost all IRC logs :( | 16:07 |
| vkoskiv | One of these days I'll figure out how to tell irssi to hold onto them | 16:07 |
| - mark_ (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~mark@gnu.wildebeest.org) | 16:14 | |
| vkoskiv | I (think) I did it. | 16:14 |
| + arminweigl_ (~arminweig@sourcehut/user/arminweigl) | 16:31 | |
| - arminweigl (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~arminweig@sourcehut/user/arminweigl) | 16:31 | |
| + arminweigl (~arminweig@sourcehut/user/arminweigl) | 16:34 | |
| - arminweigl_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~arminweig@sourcehut/user/arminweigl) | 16:36 | |
| vkoskiv | That ars piece neglected to consider the fact that the slowness of common tasks like web browsing and slack is more the fault of inefficient software than slow hardware. | 16:38 |
| vkoskiv | At least, I'd argue that would be the case. I was chatting away and browsing the web perfectly fine in 2008 on my single core AMD chip with 1GB of RAM. | 16:38 |
| vkoskiv | I remain very strongly enthusiastic about my unit. The slow CPU is a feature, not a bug. | 16:39 |
| technomancy | it is honestly odd that booting off the SSD instead of SD card is documented as an advanced feature | 16:51 |
| mntmn | technomancy: it was experimental at the point of writing the handbook | 16:57 |
| mntmn | the handbook text is now quite old | 16:57 |
| mntmn | and things have progressed | 16:57 |
| technomancy | guess I just mean it's not that surprising that a reviewer would omit that step | 16:57 |
| mntmn | well yeah this could have been prepared better | 16:58 |
| mntmn | we should have just given them the thing with SSD boot | 16:58 |
| mntmn | and also, the previous reviewer that didn't finish the job let the batteries drain | 16:58 |
| mntmn | naja whatever | 16:58 |
| - erlehmann (QUIT: Quit: Just say no, then the virus can not enter your body without your consent.) (~erle@ip5f5bf485.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) | 16:59 | |
| technomancy | next time =) | 16:59 |
| sigrid | I am still using reform with an sd card and I have nothing to complain about, really | 17:10 |
| Boostisbetter | What really annoys me is that he said the side port shield broke while he was reviewing the unit... I mean what the heck are you doing with the thing? I hate how video reviewers, for example, just nonchalantly handle thing and swing them around, and then talk about how things are flimsy. I mean who tosses their laptop around? | 17:17 |
| mntmn | yeah. it doesn't match the fact that the aluminum body is super solid tho, so we should change it | 17:22 |
| Boostisbetter | mntmn: I personally find the build quality of the Reform to be super high. I think the way the lid locks around the body of the laptop is genius and helps relieve stress on the hinges. | 17:43 |
| Boostisbetter | I mean, the side covers wont survive a direct hit with a hammer, but why would one expect something like that to begin with? I mean if it breaks, you can 3d print new ones, or just order new ones. | 17:44 |
| Boostisbetter | Or even buy aluminum ones that a community member made. | 17:45 |
| - freakazoid333 (PART: Leaving) (~matt@2603:9000:cf03:86c3:ec54:cd88:99c3:2b2f) | 17:46 | |
| + vagrantc (~vagrant@97-120-32-130.ptld.qwest.net) | 17:51 | |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 250 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc03:8900:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374) | 17:55 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc03:8900:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374) | 17:56 | |
| swivel | arstechnica article on hn https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30147547 | 17:58 |
| Boostisbetter | swivel: that was shared here a little over 2 hours ago. Lukas has already reshared it on twitter and mastodon. | 17:59 |
| Boostisbetter | scroll through the logs, we have been discussing it here. | 17:59 |
| mntmn | Boostisbetter: no, that is about the HN discussion | 18:00 |
| mntmn | i wasn't aware of that yet | 18:01 |
| mntmn | swivel: thx | 18:01 |
| Boostisbetter | mntmn: ok thought they were just pointing out the root article. | 18:02 |
| kfx | Boostisbetter: I broke my plate in the same way, and I absolutely toss my laptop around. | 18:09 |
| Boostisbetter | kfx: yeah I guess I'm a different breed. I handle all of my electronics with care. | 18:09 |
| kfx | I bring mine to war zones. | 18:09 |
| technomancy | I've dropped my thinkpads off 1.5m standing desks multiple times | 18:10 |
| technomancy | only had to replace the hinges once | 18:11 |
| sigrid | I've been dropped *on* my thinkpad | 18:11 |
| sigrid | can't beat that one | 18:11 |
| technomancy | like ... when you were a baby? | 18:12 |
| sigrid | no :) | 18:12 |
| sigrid | when my ex thought I was in bed for too long and pulled me off it | 18:12 |
| sigrid | I stopped putting computers on the floor since then | 18:13 |
| kfx | In the Dubai airport in 2006, coming back from Afghanistan, there was a line of Macbook owners waiting to use Skype on my thinkpad, because my t23 still booted and their Macbooks did not. | 18:13 |
| Boostisbetter | Ironically I was heading towards Afghanistan at the same time. I had a Fujitsu P something Lifebook. It was classified as a UMPC then. | 18:14 |
| Boostisbetter | That suckers was with me the whole 5 months. | 18:15 |
| kfx | The closest I come to babying a laptop is taking my backpack off before getting into a car | 18:16 |
| Boostisbetter | Yeah I just can't do it. I paid a lot of money for my laptops, I know how fragile the internals can be, and I just don't see it as worth it. Taking it easy with them, or being careful with them, is no real extra effort. | 18:17 |
| kfx | my life is too short for that, so I had some aluminum plates cut | 18:18 |
| technomancy | the point of having a repairable computer is so you can repair it, right? | 18:18 |
| kfx | which reminds me; I need to get a status update on the G10 milling to replace that acrylic | 18:18 |
| Boostisbetter | yep, being able to repair something is great. Having to repair it more often because of how I handle it, is just not something I got the time for. | 18:19 |
| Boostisbetter | But that is me | 18:20 |
| swivel | mntmn: np | 18:20 |
| - mjw (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2488:1400:9e5c:8eff:fe8f:a440) | 18:45 | |
| - MajorBiscuit (QUIT: Ping timeout: 268 seconds) (~MajorBisc@c-001-028-049.client.tudelft.eduvpn.nl) | 19:07 | |
| + erlehmann (~erle@ip5f5bd57a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) | 19:29 | |
| flowy | my largest issue with that arstechnica article is- if they admit they weren't the target audience, they could have interviewed/talked more with those that are before publishing? | 21:08 |
| Boostisbetter | Yeah, I agree. | 21:10 |
| flowy | but it's an unusual laptop for sure so an article like this was bound to arrive. ;) | 21:13 |
| Boostisbetter | The Reform against the standard industry is always going to come off as a bit of a black sheep. | 21:14 |
| flowy | call it a milestone | 21:14 |
| flowy | yeah | 21:14 |
| Boostisbetter | If more effort would have put in to seeing if it could be a daily, the review would have been much better. | 21:14 |
| flowy | well it sounds like they did put a reasonable amount of effort in | 21:15 |
| flowy | like it's not a cursory 'hands-on' type of review | 21:16 |
| Boostisbetter | I didn't that impression but ymmv | 21:16 |
| flowy | yeah it's relative, it depends what your expectations are on the consumer/tinkerer spectrum | 21:17 |
| flowy | maybe my bar has been set far too low by sites like theverge | 21:18 |
| flowy | (being the low bar) | 21:19 |
| Boostisbetter | yeah, I pretty can't stand most tech review sites these days. Their agendas being far more than tech or software is just annoying. | 21:19 |
| - xktr (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~xktr@173.208.77.76) | 22:13 | |
| + xktr (~xktr@37.120.147.5) | 22:15 | |
| ex-parrot | what a disappointing article | 23:24 |
| ex-parrot | "this thing doesn't suit my use case that it wasn't designed for! boo!" | 23:24 |
| mntmn | ex-parrot: haha | 23:26 |
| mntmn | incredible numbers @ rpi https://twitter.com/EbenUpton/status/1486107991271260168 | 23:26 |
| ex-parrot | good morning mntmn :) | 23:26 |
| ex-parrot | is ku = thousand units? | 23:26 |
| mntmn | yes | 23:27 |
| mntmn | kilo units yeah | 23:27 |
| ex-parrot | I don't even have a point of reference for those numbers but it feels like a lot | 23:27 |
| mntmn | it is a lot | 23:27 |
| ex-parrot | I think in theory my DevTerm can take a CM4 | 23:27 |
| ex-parrot | I need to work out if there's any practical reason to try it | 23:28 |
| ex-parrot | actually no I don't, I don't usually worry about that criteria :D | 23:28 |
| mntmn | haha | 23:28 |
| swivel | ex-parrot: how do you like the DevTerm? | 23:28 |
| ex-parrot | I haven't really used it a lot, but it's super charming | 23:29 |
| ex-parrot | the keyboard typing experience is pretty meh | 23:29 |
| ex-parrot | the extra wide screen is lovely | 23:29 |
| ex-parrot | and building it was super fun | 23:29 |
| swivel | bummer re: typing | 23:30 |
| ex-parrot | overall I am happy with it. I tihnk if you want a small open hardware ARM computer with a more usable keyboard the PinePhone w/ Keyboard Case might actually make more sense | 23:30 |
| swivel | typing is kind of the cornerstone of any gnu/linux machine | 23:30 |
| ex-parrot | I have a TRS-80 Model 100 and the keyboard on that is so much better there's no comparison | 23:30 |
| ex-parrot | the DevTerm one feels kind of bindy if you hit the keys off centre and they have a weird spring action that kind of "pops" in a way I don't totally enjoy | 23:30 |
| technomancy | comparing it to a 1980s keyboard is cheating | 23:30 |
| ex-parrot | it is yeah | 23:31 |
| technomancy | keep it within the current millenium =) | 23:31 |
| ex-parrot | I just thought it was interesting since they've said they took inspiration from it | 23:31 |
| swivel | i have a graveyard of every sharp zaurus model ever made, and that era marked the end of my tolerance for mediocre keyboards | 23:31 |
| ex-parrot | I collect old portables so I have a lot of points of comparison | 23:31 |
| swivel | mntmn: what's meant by "ex-stock availability" in that tweet? | 23:32 |
| swivel | that trs-80 model 100 looks like a reasonable size | 23:34 |
| ex-parrot | they're bigger than you're imagiing probably | 23:35 |
| ex-parrot | fairly chonky | 23:35 |
| ex-parrot | the DevTerm is definitely closer to pocketable | 23:35 |
| swivel | good typing experience and pocketable tend to be mutually exclusive IME | 23:35 |
| ex-parrot | I had a Psion Series 5 back in the day | 23:37 |
| ex-parrot | and they really nailed it | 23:37 |
| ex-parrot | the PinePhone keyboard is almost as good somehow | 23:37 |
| technomancy | this is the first time I've seen the lisp alien logo on a page that wasn't specifically about CL https://static.wixstatic.com/media/3833f7_c3e2e57201a542409a4352928a88f8a8~mv2.png/v1/crop/x_0,y_0,w_1200,h_293/fill/w_800,h_195,al_c,q_85,usm_0.66_1.00_0.01/DevTerm_icons_c.webp | 23:37 |
| ex-parrot | which is amazing for a $40 thing | 23:37 |
| technomancy | (from the devterm page) | 23:37 |
| mntmn | swivel: probably "from current stock" | 23:38 |
| - erlehmann (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~erle@ip5f5bd57a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) | 23:38 | |
| technomancy | it's kind of funny, at some point you're just like "ok we get it; linux. you can stop showing language logos" | 23:38 |
| + erlehmann (~erle@ip5f5bd57a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) | 23:38 | |
| swivel | mntmn: does that mean current stock is tied up in shipping congestion nobody has a handle on ETA for? | 23:39 |
| technomancy | "Its aspect ratio has reached an astonishing 16:6 (a typical retro-style proportion)." what ... does that mean?? | 23:39 |
| ex-parrot | it means the screen is very wide, like the Model 100 and Sharp PC and Amstrad NC100 and Zambridge Z88 and so on | 23:41 |
| ex-parrot | and also that maybe the person writing the advertising copy speaks english as a second language :P | 23:42 |
| technomancy | huh, ok I knew of the TRS-80 model 100 but I didn't know there were others | 23:42 |
| ex-parrot | yeah that form factor was really common for a while | 23:42 |
| ex-parrot | https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/3pEAAOSwMLtd5Ezl/s-l400.jpg | 23:42 |
| ex-parrot | Cambridge Z88* rather | 23:43 |
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