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| sturles | Hmm. I left my MNT Reform on standby until the battery was empty, and that had some unexpected consequenses. When I connected it to power again, some of the cells showed 0 V. Onle is blinking and showing .3. After a while it is not charging (0.00 A), the first cell is at 5.3V(!) and cell 4 is still blinking. Total voltage is 4.79V, which is less than the first cell. Should I worry? | 11:26 |
|---|---|---|
| sturles | Total voltage is slowly increasing. One cell still blinking. | 11:34 |
| sturles | The other cells are at 0.5, 1.7, 0.9, 0.3, 1.7 and 0.6. | 11:38 |
| sturles | The blinking cell icon is offset a few pixels to the right, and the first digit is't visible. It only shows .3. | 11:40 |
| sturles | Status display clains a cell is missing! | 11:41 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 265 seconds) (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc18:b400:12c3:7bff:fe6d:d374) | 11:43 | |
| sturles | Disconnectd power for a while and reconnected. Cells are now at 2.4, 0.9, 0.9, 0.0, (blink) .2, 1.4, 1.1 and 0.2. Total voltage is 4.29V. The cells, except the blinking one, adds up to 6.9V. Which means the blinking cell may be at -2.6V! I don't have my multimeter here, and can't test it now. | 12:03 |
| sturles | None of the cell voltages are increasling, but total is now at 5.04V. Will keep it plugged in for a while. | 12:08 |
| + mjw (~mjw_@2001:1c06:2487:f800:9e5c:8eff:fe8f:a440) | 12:55 | |
| - adjtm (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~adjtm@2a0c:5a80:310c:da00:ae9c:8ff8:c4f4:ea7a) | 13:33 | |
| + chomwitt (~chomwitt@94.66.61.137) | 13:42 | |
| sturles | How is CHG_RNG regulated? I can only find it once in the schematics (Power System). | 13:49 |
| sturles | Do'h. Been looking for it for 20 minutes, and found it on the next page after asking. | 13:50 |
| mntmn | sturles: yo! | 13:54 |
| mntmn | sturles: the first thing you should do is upgrade to the new firmware if you don't have it yet (i think you don't) | 13:55 |
| sturles | Probably not. | 13:55 |
| mntmn | sturles: we have been through this problem a lot of times | 13:55 |
| mntmn | TLDR update procedure: https://community.mnt.re/t/battery-monitoring-while-off/480/6 | 13:56 |
| mntmn | sturles: also you can see here, RNG is not used anymore as it is unreliable in the LTC4020 https://community.mnt.re/t/mnt-reform-r-2-motherboard-update-2021-04-19/177 | 13:57 |
| mntmn | sturles: the charging is now turned on and off by controlling the NTC pin | 13:57 |
| mntmn | (but with the same LPC output pin that was CHG_RNG before) | 13:58 |
| mntmn | we modified all boards like described in the article | 13:58 |
| mntmn | sturles: anyway, i am not confident that reform can itself recover your undervolted cells (undervolted is below 2.5V). the recommended way is to use a lab power supply to revive them individually or use a lifepo4 charger | 13:59 |
| sturles | The NTC pin! No wonder I have been scratching my head about this.. | 13:59 |
| mntmn | sturles: if you don't have the equipment to revive the cells, it might be cheaper to get new cells i.e. here https://eu.nkon.nl/jgne-18650-1800mah-5-4a-lifepo4.html | 14:01 |
| sturles | OK. I'll just unplug my Reform and charge the cells in a charger. I'm sure I will be able to revive them. Have done it many times with Li-ion cells. I assume the procedure is the same. | 14:02 |
| mntmn | ah yeah, perfect | 14:08 |
| mntmn | the lifepo4 cells are more tolerant than liions | 14:08 |
| mntmn | i.e. they rarely get hot | 14:08 |
| mntmn | just the charge voltage is lower, something between 3.6-3.8V | 14:08 |
| mntmn | they need to have at least 2.5V to be charged by reform | 14:09 |
| sturles | I'll revive them with a very low current until they reach minimum 2.5V. (Would use 1-10 mA until 3.3V for a Li-ion cell). | 14:13 |
| sturles | Any reason for not doing this in the Reform? | 14:15 |
| mntmn | sturles: i think it might be possible to do it by modifying the low-voltage cutoff resistor(s) for ltc4020, but untested | 14:19 |
| mntmn | sturles: i'm just not sure how it will behave with a string of 8 partially undervolted batteries. definitely something to test | 14:19 |
| mntmn | hmm reviewing the datasheet again, maybe it could be done in firmware by just allowing charging in undervoltage state. BUT it would be dangerous if a cell is 0V | 14:22 |
| mntmn | because that cell could act like a short | 14:23 |
| mjw | mntmn, I really should sent my reform in for you to take a look at why my batteries keep draining. I am part of the first 25 batch. Currently using it without any batteries, which works, but is slightly inconvenient. But I love using it so much. I would definitely miss it if I sent it in for repairs :} | 14:23 |
| mntmn | mjw: when do they drain? in off state? | 14:23 |
| mjw | mntmn, no even when plugged in. some batteries just don't seem to charge, so they very slowly drain. | 14:24 |
| + adjtm (~adjtm@150.red-81-36-209.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) | 14:24 | |
| mjw | and eventually they get to zero and I cannot even charge them with an external charger | 14:24 |
| mntmn | mjw: it might be this https://community.mnt.re/t/mnt-reform-r-2-motherboard-update-2021-04-19/177 | 14:25 |
| mntmn | if the charge voltage is not high enough they would just not charge | 14:25 |
| mntmn | mjw: which country are you in? | 14:25 |
| mjw | yes, that is what I thought | 14:25 |
| mjw | mntmn, The Netherlands | 14:26 |
| mntmn | mjw: oh, that's not too bad then... you can send it to us, for example even only the motherboard | 14:26 |
| mntmn | but i understand it is not easy to part with ;) | 14:26 |
| mjw | I don't mind paying for shipping, but I mind not having it, I am really attached to it now :) | 14:26 |
| mntmn | ha ^^ | 14:27 |
| mntmn | mjw: do you know someone nearby who could do the mod? it's removing one resistor and then placing another one | 14:27 |
| mjw | mntmn, no, or I would have asked them already. The darn pandemic still makes meeting up at a nearby hackerspace somewhat problematic. | 14:28 |
| mntmn | oh ok :| | 14:28 |
| mjw | anyway, I'll email you when I am ready to part with it for long enough to sent it in | 14:30 |
| mjw | but it really is my daily driver now, so I have to make the emotional jump :) | 14:30 |
| sturles | Re pandemic, how is Berlin now? Will arrive there on Sunday from Norway. Norway is completely open again with > 90% of adults vaccinated and number of new cases dropping. | 14:35 |
| sturles | Off-topic, I know.. | 14:35 |
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| sknebel | not as good as that, but with a proof of vaccination EU qr code (hope you can get that? not sure what norway uses) you should be fine pretty much everywhere. don't forget a ffp2 mask for public transport etc | 15:17 |
| mntmn | yeah | 15:45 |
| - chomwitt (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~chomwitt@94.66.61.137) | 15:45 | |
| mntmn | i prefer to go to only "2G" locations only, which means vax/recovered only | 15:45 |
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| sturles | Unfortunately a friend of my daughter joins us on this trip, and she got her second dose today. She will be somewhat restricted and have to take a test every third day, I guess. Will that restrict us much? The EU certificate isn't valid until 2 weeks after the second shot. | 16:27 |
| mntmn | depends. you will be able to take her to "3G" places only then | 16:34 |
| mntmn | but most restaurants etc are 3G | 16:34 |
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| erlehmann | <mntmn> hmm reviewing the datasheet again, maybe it could be done in firmware by just allowing charging in undervoltage state. BUT it would be dangerous if a cell is 0V | 18:09 |
| erlehmann | mntmn wait i have 2 cells where the monitoring says they are close to 0V is it dangerous? o.0 | 18:09 |
| mntmn | erlehmann: yes, i wrote you in the other channel that your device/batteries need servicing | 18:09 |
| erlehmann | oh ok lets talk there | 18:10 |
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