| + freakazoid343 (~matt@2603:9000:cf0f:80e3:d98:43e6:93b2:ad9) | 00:02 | |
| - freakazoid12345 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 245 seconds) (~matt@2603-9000-cf0f-80e3-0d98-43e6-93b2-0ad9.inf6.spectrum.com) | 00:04 | |
| chartreuse | Also I do think the thermal pad between the cpu heatsink and the back case is doing its job. Hard to tell if the cpu temps are overall lower, but the back case does get noticably warm so it is dissipating some heat from inside to out | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
| chartreuse | I believe it is helping though, didn't take any proper measurements, but the bottom acrylic seems cooler as well | 00:30 |
| mntmn | nice, it should def. help | 00:44 |
| chartreuse | I cut down a 0.5mm thermal pad and that seems to be the right size to fit in there, just loosen the heatsink slide it in and press the heatsink up against it while tightening | 00:58 |
| chartreuse | If anyone else feels like doing that | 00:59 |
| chartreuse | brb | 00:59 |
| - chartreuse (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~chartreus@S0106f0f249dfd9c3.cg.shawcable.net) | 00:59 | |
| + chartreuse (~chartreus@S0106f0f249dfd9c3.cg.shawcable.net) | 02:14 | |
| chartreuse | Took apart my trackball so I could just take measurements with a calipre. Much easier than dealing with measuring the stl file in blender with measureit | 02:20 |
| chartreuse | Should be good enough to make a replacement, still will cross reference some to the stl, stuff like the spacing of the mounting holes | 02:21 |
| chartreuse | And convert all the thousanth of an inch measurements to mm and see the round numbers appear back hopefully XD | 02:22 |
| mntmn | :D | 02:29 |
| chartreuse | One width I got was 1.262", well 32mm is 1.260" so going to say that was in margin of measurement error and it should be 32 | 02:32 |
| chartreuse | Makes things much easier | 02:32 |
| + freakazoid12345 (~matt@2603-9000-cf0f-80e3-0d98-43e6-93b2-0ad9.inf6.spectrum.com) | 02:56 | |
| - freakazoid343 (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~matt@2603:9000:cf0f:80e3:d98:43e6:93b2:ad9) | 02:59 | |
| chartreuse | https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574078317599391744/886429423216234496/screenshot-2021-09-11-19-53-19.png | 03:54 |
| chartreuse | Making progress on the open scad trackball cup | 03:54 |
| chartreuse | Tempted to print it as is to see how far off it is before modifying it to fit the ball bearings | 03:55 |
| chartreuse | Just had the fun of calculating the distance from center of the three mounting balls such they'd be just touching the trackball at any height from the center | 05:09 |
| - S0rin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 05:12 | |
| + S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 05:13 | |
| chartreuse | Printing now, hopefully it's close | 05:41 |
| ex-parrot | \o/ | 05:41 |
| ex-parrot | you're doing great work, chartreuse | 05:41 |
| chartreuse | After dousing the current one in ptfe dry lube it's feeling a bit better, but having a ball bearing option will be nice, and shouldn't require quite as frequent of cleaning | 05:43 |
| chartreuse | Since I took it fully out I was fine going ham with the spray and making sure a layer was built up XD | 05:43 |
| chartreuse | Either way too, having a model done in an open source program will be nice | 05:43 |
| ex-parrot | agree | 05:52 |
| ex-parrot | I am really enamored with how nice the prints on the Reform are | 05:53 |
| ex-parrot | do we know what material the original trackball holder is? | 05:53 |
| chartreuse | The clear one or the black one? | 05:55 |
| chartreuse | I believe he's said the black one is PLA | 05:55 |
| ex-parrot | oh yeah nice | 05:55 |
| ex-parrot | it must be printed on a really high end machine | 05:56 |
| chartreuse | (I'm sure I'll be corrected if I am wrong about that XD) | 05:56 |
| chartreuse | I've gotten similar good results with my budget machine. I'll take a photo of how my holder ends up as well, it's about half way done | 05:56 |
| ex-parrot | PLA is very robust at least in my experience | 05:56 |
| ex-parrot | cool, please do | 05:56 |
| ex-parrot | I've got a couple of Ultimaker machines here tho truth be told I don't usually run them in "nice quality" mode | 05:56 |
| ex-parrot | so I don't have a great picture of what they're capable of | 05:57 |
| chartreuse | I'm thinking I probably could have gotten away with printing it "upside down" without supports | 05:57 |
| chartreuse | Rather than printing it from the bottom with full support | 05:57 |
| ex-parrot | should work, I wouldn't think you'd even need support to print it right way up | 05:57 |
| ex-parrot | esp since it doesn't strictly matter if the outside surface is a bit saggy? | 05:57 |
| chartreuse | The mounting flange is a overhang with 90 degree angle | 05:57 |
| ex-parrot | oh | 05:57 |
| ex-parrot | as you were :P | 05:57 |
| chartreuse | It doesn't but I'd rather those have support | 05:58 |
| ex-parrot | I don't know if I'd trust the overhangs doing it upside down, but maybe | 05:58 |
| ex-parrot | yeah | 05:58 |
| chartreuse | You can see that from the bottom | 05:58 |
| ex-parrot | maybe do some supports just for the flanges? | 05:58 |
| chartreuse | Yeah, but I added a bit more near the center anyways, plus there's a little lip on the one side of the bottom to stop the senor going too far or such | 05:58 |
| chartreuse | Doesn't take much longer to add a bit of support, and its on the bottom anyways | 05:59 |
| ex-parrot | cool | 05:59 |
| chartreuse | This first print I'm doing at 0.3mm layer height, so not the highest quality, but just wanted a fitment test. I kinda eyeballed the top lid mounting holes since I forgot to get a measurement of them | 05:59 |
| ex-parrot | _b | 05:59 |
| chartreuse | Just want to get an overall idea, and see how the bearings fit, as well as check if I need to compensate for my printer some | 06:00 |
| ex-parrot | back when I first got in to 3D printing 0.3mm was the default layer size for everyone I knew, then some of us moved to 0.25 | 06:00 |
| chartreuse | I do most of my normal prints at 0.2, and only go 0.3 when I need speed, or care less about looks | 06:00 |
| ex-parrot | the Ultimaker has a 0.8mm nozzle which is great for just blasting out brackets and things | 06:01 |
| chartreuse | That's a big nozzle | 06:02 |
| ex-parrot | it's beefy | 06:02 |
| ex-parrot | enthusiastic, even | 06:02 |
| chartreuse | Guessing it uses the thicker filaments? | 06:02 |
| ex-parrot | yeah | 06:02 |
| chartreuse | If it's got one of those removable beds that must be great for quick turnabout times. | 06:03 |
| ex-parrot | it's not bad, especially with two machines | 06:03 |
| ex-parrot | I'm told the 3mm filament is out of fashion now but I haven't struggled to find it yet | 06:03 |
| chartreuse | Mine has a non-removable glass bed which works very nicely, but I need to wait for it to cool to around 30C before I can take the part off | 06:03 |
| ex-parrot | the ultimaker glass bed is technically removable but it lacerates my hands every time | 06:03 |
| ex-parrot | due to the clips not being very well designed | 06:03 |
| ex-parrot | so I tend to just leave it be :P | 06:03 |
| chartreuse | Ah okay. Yeah this could be removed, but I feel I'd mess up the alignment doing so | 06:04 |
| chartreuse | Not really meant to be removed for normal use | 06:04 |
| ex-parrot | mskes sense | 06:04 |
| chartreuse | https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574078317599391744/886465699613130792/20210911_221732.jpg | 06:18 |
| chartreuse | Not terrible looking for a 0.3mm print, I think I should have just left the zseam on one side rather than random. Make it look worse this way | 06:19 |
| ex-parrot | that looks adequate | 06:21 |
| ex-parrot | maybe the z seam will help support the ball :P | 06:22 |
| chartreuse | The idea is that the ball bearings are the only contact points | 06:22 |
| ex-parrot | makes sense, I was just joking | 06:22 |
| chartreuse | Even without the bearings it it feels miles smoother XD. Maybe that's just the pla I have and the thicker layer layers, and I guess wider tollerance | 06:25 |
| ex-parrot | I think when I eventually wear out the nubs on mine I'll insert some bearings in to the original print | 06:26 |
| chartreuse | It'll keep spinning for a second after flicking it which is quite good | 06:26 |
| ex-parrot | nice | 06:26 |
| chartreuse | Now got to get the bearings out of their bag without spilling 100 of them everywhere | 06:27 |
| ex-parrot | maybe I should just transplant the trackball from a Powerbook 150 | 06:27 |
| ex-parrot | I think you should just spill them and get it over with | 06:27 |
| chartreuse | Lost one already XD | 06:31 |
| chartreuse | Okay with the ball bearings glued in the ball is now sitting too high, I think the holes print just too small for them to actually fit in as far as they should | 06:39 |
| chartreuse | Putting the top cap on its pressing down on the ball slightly | 06:39 |
| chartreuse | Does run quite nicely over the balls, I could possibly go down to the 1.5mm balls, but those might be a bit too small | 06:40 |
| chartreuse | Yeah, just checked and more than half the ball is above the center line, so they're sitting high | 06:42 |
| chartreuse | Also getting a bit more "play" from the ball than I was expecting with the bearings, not sure if that's related to the former. Might just be that the contact area is too low now with the undersized holes | 06:43 |
| chartreuse | https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574078317599391744/886473434752761856/20210911_224843.jpg | 06:49 |
| chartreuse | Going to shut down the reform and test the other mounts before making a revision | 06:50 |
| - chartreuse (QUIT: Quit: leaving) (~chartreus@S0106f0f249dfd9c3.cg.shawcable.net) | 06:50 | |
| + chartreuse (~chartreus@S0106f0f249dfd9c3.cg.shawcable.net) | 06:50 | |
| + rasmus (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 06:52 | |
| - rasmus (PART: !!unknown attribute: msg!!) (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 06:54 | |
| chartreuse | Alright, besides the ball bearings not fitting right everything else lines up nicely. Will also move top cover screw holes down a 1/4mm or so to center it a bit better | 07:11 |
| chartreuse | Alright new revision printed (did it at 0.2mm this time) and balls glued in. Bottom support came off cleaner, though also took off a bit of the ridge at the end. | 08:48 |
| chartreuse | I'll put some black tape over the sensor there so stray light doesn't get in from the sides then | 08:48 |
| + rasmus (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 08:49 | |
| chartreuse | Think the ball could sit just a little lower still, but it works a bit better now with them more recessed. Probably just my 0.3mm fudge factor being a bit short | 08:51 |
| chartreuse | Actually having it all mounted, the height is just right. Still maybe a bit more side to side play than I would like. | 09:06 |
| chartreuse | I've got the contact angle at 45 degrees but I think having it lower (ball bearings mounted higher) maybe would be better? Dunno | 09:07 |
| chartreuse | Very smooth though. | 09:07 |
| chartreuse | Not quite as smooth as a logitech trackball, but I think that's due to the delrin ball. | 09:07 |
| chartreuse | The logitech balls have a smoother surface | 09:08 |
| chartreuse | Quite smooth but is louder in use now. Have to look into if there's things I could tweak to improve that | 09:18 |
| chartreuse | Current openSCAD model available here https://source.mnt.re/Chartreuse/replacement-parts | 09:38 |
| chartreuse | I'll see about tweaking it some more later, don't feel like printing another at the moment | 09:38 |
| chartreuse | mntmn: Is there a preferred license for 3d models or OpenSCAD code? Or what's the model for the current trackball cup under? | 09:42 |
| chartreuse | Not really sure what I should be classifying it as. It's a derivative work of the original model with a bunch of dimensional copies, but is code in this case | 09:42 |
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| + rasmus (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 12:32 | |
| mntmn | ex-parrot, chartreuse: yeah the 3d prints are PLA, printed on a BCN3D Sigma | 12:58 |
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| + rasmus (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 13:47 | |
| chartreuse | The print quality is extremely good on it. I didn't realize how fine the layers were done till I printed mine at 0.2mm and it was still probably 2x as fine | 15:56 |
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| chartreuse | Alright did a third print. Moving the mounts up higher is a noticeable improvement. It now can't climb the bearings because of the top retaining ring, and is in general a little smoother still | 19:12 |
| chartreuse | Well, maybe more friction but feels smoother in use as it doesn't spin quite as freely as before, but still more than enough to easily outpace the sensor | 19:13 |
| + S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 19:16 | |
| mntmn | chartreuse: how is it compared to no bearings? i understand correctly that the bearings can't move and are glued in, yes? | 19:18 |
| chartreuse | Yes, the bearings are just acting as a small smooth contact surface. Like in a normal trackball they have a small jewel bushing for three points | 19:20 |
| mntmn | interesting. | 19:20 |
| chartreuse | It's significantly smoother compared with the original cup with no bearings | 19:20 |
| mntmn | ok! | 19:20 |
| chartreuse | Also means it shouldn't gum up as quickly as dirt won't really build up on the tiny contact point | 19:20 |
| chartreuse | If you want to use my model without the metal bearings in it, it probably would be best to reduce cup_dia a little so there's less room around it | 19:22 |
| chartreuse | I think it also might work to use the bearing_mounts module in the union section rather than difference so you get a plastic bump. Not sure how well that'd work | 19:22 |
| - S0rin (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 19:24 | |
| chartreuse | If you have 2.5mm chrome ball bearings (just the balls), you should give it a try. I ended up supergluing them in to the holes since printing a press-fit didn't work out well enough | 19:24 |
| chartreuse | Something I want to try is to see if I have a commercial trackball with a 25mm ball to see how it feels with a smoother surface than the delrin | 19:25 |
| chartreuse | Smoother and more heft could be nice. Like a steel ball with a plastic finish of some kind | 19:27 |
| chartreuse | Here's one of the 'bearings' in a logitech wheelman trackball | 19:31 |
| chartreuse | https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/574078317599391744/886665186390450216/20210912_113018.jpg | 19:39 |
| + S0rin (~S0rin@user/s0rin) | 19:40 | |
| - rasmus (PART: Disconnected: timeout during receiving) (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 19:48 | |
| + rasmus (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 19:49 | |
| mntmn | chartreuse: fascinating | 19:53 |
| sbates | I use a Kensington "Expert Mouse" trackball and it has 3 very similar 'bearings', each mounted in a little holder. I've had it for about 6 years and it's still running smoothly. | 21:35 |
| technomancy | I have that too; the one that looks like it should fit a billiard ball but actually is like 2mm too small | 21:40 |
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| + rasmus (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 21:50 | |
| mntmn | chartreuse: we will try to replicate your design | 22:07 |
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