| + reformer (~reformer@softboy.mntmn.com) | 17:14 | |
| mntmn | test | 17:14 |
|---|---|---|
| + reformer (~reformer@softboy.mntmn.com) | 17:20 | |
| * ChanServ changed mode (+o, mntmn) | 17:20 | |
| * ChanServ changed mode (+v, reformer) | 17:20 | |
| mntmn | logs are back, sorry for the service interruption | 17:21 |
| sbates | On boot, I am seeing 2 of the following messages: "[UNSUPP] Starting of Arbitrary Executable File Formats File System Automount Point not supported". Is this expected? I also see them in journalctl but I don't know where to look for additional information. | 17:44 |
| mntmn | interesting | 17:44 |
| mntmn | something to do with binfmt_misc | 17:45 |
| mntmn | did you install wine or something related to other binary formats? | 17:46 |
| sbates | I don't believe so, at least not on purpose. I'm running the SD card image that shipped with my Reform but I did do an 'apt upgrade' yesterday and that updated a lot of packages. | 17:47 |
| sbates | looking at '/var/log/apt/history.log', the only new package that I installed was 'iw', and I have run 'apt upgrade' a few times | 17:54 |
| mntmn | ok so probably some new debian stuff | 17:56 |
| mntmn | i guess it sounds harmless | 17:56 |
| erlehmann | sbates on your system, is /bin a symlink to /usr/bin? if so, it is one of about 30 million or so (a debian dev told me the number) systems that may be in a faulty state due to the usrmerge package being shitty | 17:59 |
| mntmn | erlehmann: how would /bin become a symlink? | 18:00 |
| sbates | erlehmann: no, /bin is separate from /usr/bin | 18:00 |
| mntmn | usrmerge/unstable 25 all | 18:00 |
| mntmn | Convert the system to the merged /usr directories scheme | 18:00 |
| mntmn | erlehmann: is it when installing that package? | 18:00 |
| erlehmann | GyrosGeier recently told me about the usrmerge problem (basically the usrmerge package is touching files of other packages without telling dpkg about it, so dpkg gets confused, maintainer of the package is being unfriendly about it when approached) | 18:00 |
| erlehmann | yes blacklist that package | 18:00 |
| mntmn | well i am not installing it | 18:00 |
| erlehmann | talk to GyrosGeier about the details if you want | 18:01 |
| sbates | if I do 'systemctl status systemd-binfmt.service', I see "condition failed" caused by directories not being empty | 18:01 |
| erlehmann | systemd or whatever else might want to depend on it in on upgrade in the future for all i know | 18:01 |
| mntmn | oh ok https://wiki.debian.org/UsrMerge | 18:02 |
| mntmn | > In February 2021, the Technical Committee has resolved that Debian 'bookworm' should support only the merged-usr root filesystem layout, dropping support for the non-merged-usr layout | 18:02 |
| erlehmann | fact is, usrmerge being installed makes a debian system faulty … and uninstalling usrmerge does not fix it. | 18:02 |
| erlehmann | mntmn, the problem is that they mandated it, but the solution basically breaks package management. | 18:02 |
| erlehmann | they should have changed each package individually | 18:03 |
| mntmn | well, if it is coming, then i guess it will be fixed? | 18:03 |
| mntmn | yes that makes sense | 18:03 |
| mntmn | i trust debian will not just completely break itself... | 18:03 |
| erlehmann | too late | 18:03 |
| mntmn | why too late | 18:03 |
| mntmn | it is not yet the default | 18:03 |
| erlehmann | GyrosGeier told me that if your system is in one of over 20 error states caused by usrmerge, you will have to wait for 2 debian releases for it to be fixed | 18:04 |
| mntmn | but i don't have usrmerge installed... | 18:04 |
| erlehmann | depending on how you install debian, it may be the default. or anything might depend on usrmerge in the future. | 18:04 |
| erlehmann | just blacklist it and talk to GyrosGeier if you want to know how bad it is (spoiler: it sounds really bad, i think package maintainers must now avoid renaming files to trigger bugs if a system is in the error state) | 18:05 |
| sbates | oh a related note, what would be the feasibility of moving over to the Debian 11 stable release, rather than sid? | 18:08 |
| erlehmann | ; sudo apt-mark hold usrmerge | 18:09 |
| erlehmann | hold is used to mark a package as held back, which will prevent the package | 18:09 |
| erlehmann | from being automatically installed, upgraded or removed. | 18:09 |
| erlehmann | to be clear, this is not about merged usr being good or bad (it makes some things easier, others harder) but about the implementation of the usrmerge package which moves files around without telling dpkg (and is so cursed that it has to use perl for that – since a shell script might remove its own binaries while it runs) | 18:13 |
| erlehmann | i mean the binaries it uses | 18:13 |
| erlehmann | mntmn, sbates btw this lists a lot of problems: https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Dpkg/MergedUsr | 18:15 |
| erlehmann | oh lol “tar -x on the root directory will break systems using this approach, by overwriting the symlinked directories with actual ones.” | 18:16 |
| erlehmann | more relevant: on a broken system, files moved from one package to another might disappear on upgrade depending on installation order | 18:17 |
| mntmn | nice can of worms | 18:17 |
| mntmn | sbates: you can move over to stable without much problems i think -- currently our own version of mesa, X, sway etc is used anyway (under /usr/local) | 18:18 |
| sbates | mntmn: cool, I might look into doing that, to limit surprises from new stuff being tried out in sid | 18:19 |
| sbates | the Reform image has a custom kernel plus a number of userland things as you lised above, and then everything else is from Debian, is that right? | 18:20 |
| erlehmann | mntmn i think the only thing that has to be kept in mind is if you update the sdcard image scripts at some point it should make sure usrmerge is not in it | 18:21 |
| mntmn | mhm | 18:23 |
| - erlehmann (QUIT: Quit: Just say no, then the virus can not enter your body without your consent.) (~erle@dynamic-046-114-036-181.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) | 18:40 | |
| sbates | I'll try moving my current OS over the Debian 11 bullseye and will report how it goes later | 18:55 |
| sbates | hmm, thinking about this a little more. If any of the custom build components (such as sway) are dynamically linked with libraries coming from Debian, then switching to stable, or upgrading packages if I stay on sid, might break those custom built components, is that right? | 19:12 |
| - rasmus (PART: Disconnected: timeout during receiving) (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 19:19 | |
| + rasmus (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 19:20 | |
| mntmn | sbates: good Q. it could happen, yes | 19:36 |
| mntmn | wat http://www.bespokesynth.com/ | 19:39 |
| sbates | ok, thanks, I think I'll stay as is, on sid, for now | 19:40 |
| mntmn | https://github.com/awwbees/BespokeSynth/ | 19:40 |
| + robin (~robin@user/terpri) | 20:25 | |
| mntmn | ah, the makefile has to be created by Projucer, which is in juce-tools | 20:26 |
| mntmn | running `Projucer --resave BespokeSynth.jucer` creates the Makefile | 20:26 |
| - rasmus (PART: Disconnected: timeout during receiving) (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 21:20 | |
| + rasmus (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 21:21 | |
| - rasmus (PART: Disconnected: closed) (~rasmus@c80-217-132-63.bredband.tele2.se) | 22:13 | |
| + erlehmann (~erle@dynamic-046-114-032-031.46.114.pool.telefonica.de) | 22:46 | |
| chartreuse | mntmn: Didn't know there was a new trackball firmware, I'm just running what came on my early august reform. I'll look into updating | 23:46 |
| chartreuse | Not sure I'd personally use a wheel-lock mode, but for features are always nice. I'd recommend making it easy to exit such as any mouse button press drops back to normal instead of scrolling mode | 23:47 |
| chartreuse | sbates: If you want you can look into the mkuserland scripts and such in the reform-system-image repo to see what's being installed and custom compiled for the reform | 23:50 |
| mntmn | chartreuse: you probably have the up-to-date one. if you can wheel in both x and y axes | 23:50 |
| chartreuse | Yeah I can | 23:53 |
| sbates | chartreuse: thanks, I'll take a look | 23:58 |
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