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| devyl | hm i really hope some day wayland either have a more nonblocking compositor or xorg runs on reform | 14:13 |
|---|---|---|
| Kooda | What do you mean by nonblocking? | 14:14 |
| devyl | if there is high cpu load or an app is slow windows cant be moved, ui draw gets VERY slow, mouse is shuttering... | 14:15 |
| devyl | on xorg i never had such problems | 14:15 |
| - B[] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~Thunderbi@219-89-228-78-adsl.sparkbb.co.nz) | 14:16 | |
| devyl | atm i have added 2 calendars and 5 email accounts in evolution. evolution-calendar-factory and gnome-shell eat about 50% of all cores right now... ne mouse pointer shutters, input lags,... | 14:16 |
| devyl | x.x | 14:16 |
| devyl | its terrible hat apps can stop the ui of other apps from working right (and even the mouse pointer)... | 14:18 |
| devyl | s/hat/that | 14:18 |
| devyl | i know this isn't a fault of the reform... so i hope we will see a working xorg some time soon | 14:19 |
| devyl | it's just more mature | 14:19 |
| Kooda | Damn, that doesn’t sound great | 14:20 |
| Kooda | That was my experience with wayland compositors as well, always a lot of input lag | 14:20 |
| Kooda | (a while ago and not on the reform though) | 14:20 |
| devyl | yeah... the same on the librem 5 or other devices... | 14:21 |
| devyl | even on a more or less high end linux notebook i tryed a few months ago | 14:21 |
| devyl | (ryzen zen2) | 14:22 |
| Kooda | I wonder why that happens | 14:22 |
| Kooda | I mean, the compositor could just reuse the previous frame | 14:22 |
| Kooda | (for the app that’s taking a lot of resources, I mean) | 14:22 |
| Kooda | (assuming that it’s because it redraws slowly) | 14:23 |
| devyl | i thought it is because the client renders its stuff itself and not the server/compositor like on x11 | 14:23 |
| devyl | so if the app is blocking... the ui blocks too | 14:23 |
| Kooda | No, clients also render themselves on X11 | 14:23 |
| Kooda | I mean, recent UI tookits do | 14:24 |
| devyl | hmmm ok, but the window frames not (ok gtk3 does it but there is a patch for that ^^) | 14:25 |
| Kooda | My experience with wayland was that, when one app lags, the whole interface also does, which it what annoyed me. I don’t know if you experience that as well | 14:25 |
| devyl | yes... thats it at the moment | 14:26 |
| devyl | evolution-calender does something with gnome-shell... | 14:26 |
| devyl | so the whole ui shutters | 14:26 |
| devyl | x.x i remove all accounts from evolution and use thunderbird | 14:27 |
| devyl | thats terrible... i dont even know what it does atm | 14:27 |
| mntmn | devyl: i don't have such problems here | 14:29 |
| adjtm_ | devyl, I don't think that it's wayland but the compositor | 14:29 |
| mntmn | devyl: ah you're using gnome | 14:29 |
| mntmn | yeah gnome is the problem her | 14:30 |
| adjtm_ | gnome is slow as hell | 14:30 |
| mntmn | here | 14:30 |
| mntmn | yep | 14:30 |
| mntmn | devyl: i recommend to try sway or reform-wmaker and check how that feels. reform-wmaker is de facto X just running on top of a single app compositor (cage) | 14:30 |
| adjtm_ | some months ago I tried gnome on wayland with an old gpu (amd r600 apu) and it was extremely slow | 14:30 |
| mntmn | devyl: i never have cursor slowdowns or stuff like that on sway | 14:31 |
| adjtm_ | I thought it was because of wayland but tried gnome on X11 and it was the same | 14:31 |
| devyl | mntmn: | 14:31 |
| mntmn | (i'm typing this on sway on reform right now) | 14:31 |
| adjtm_ | right now I'm using gnome on wayland but on a very recent intel laptop and it runs OK (not great) | 14:31 |
| devyl | but how to i end the session? if i end it in the context menu wm closes but the screen stays | 14:31 |
| + specing_ (~specing@unaffiliated/specing) | 14:31 | |
| mntmn | devyl: which session | 14:31 |
| adjtm_ | I'm not surprised that gnome is slow on reform | 14:31 |
| mntmn | devyl: gnome? | 14:31 |
| devyl | and i cant switch to another console with strg+alt | 14:32 |
| devyl | the windowmaker session | 14:32 |
| devyl | sorry | 14:32 |
| devyl | ^^ | 14:32 |
| mntmn | devyl: killall cage | 14:32 |
| mntmn | pkill -9 cage | 14:32 |
| devyl | i cant type it | 14:32 |
| devyl | because i cant switch to a console | 14:32 |
| mntmn | then reset | 14:32 |
| mntmn | circle+R | 14:32 |
| mntmn | you can't escape cage | 14:32 |
| mntmn | (it's a kiosk) | 14:32 |
| devyl | thats not that nice for the filesystem hm? ^^ | 14:32 |
| mntmn | c'est la vie | 14:32 |
| mntmn | the filesystem will recover, dont toggle the power, just do circle and then R for reset | 14:33 |
| mntmn | the nvme power will not get cut then | 14:33 |
| adjtm_ | devyl, can't you access the computer from another in the network? | 14:33 |
| mntmn | i have hard reset mine countless times and never lost the FS | 14:33 |
| devyl | adjtm_: i can but i want a daily usable system. | 14:33 |
| mntmn | devyl: the trick to quit cage is to kill it when you still have a terminal open | 14:34 |
| devyl | yeah... or a "shut down script" to end the session (in fact kills cage) | 14:34 |
| mntmn | yep | 14:34 |
| adjtm_ | devyl, I don't think I would use gnome on reform | 14:34 |
| - specing (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~specing@unaffiliated/specing) | 14:34 | |
| * specing_ -> specing | 14:34 | |
| devyl | yeah... i dont think too | 14:34 |
| devyl | xD | 14:34 |
| adjtm_ | :) | 14:34 |
| mntmn | also you can adapt the script that starts wmaker you can use it for other X wms too | 14:35 |
| mntmn | like xfce4-session | 14:35 |
| mntmn | it's just an example | 14:35 |
| devyl | jup | 14:35 |
| devyl | thats the next i would try | 14:35 |
| devyl | ^^ | 14:35 |
| mntmn | but when you hack around with that it's recommended to have another computer logged in via ssh maybe | 14:35 |
| mntmn | so you can kill cage if things go wrong | 14:35 |
| adjtm_ | kde on wayland was even works some months ago (I heard it improved recently) | 14:35 |
| adjtm_ | even worse | 14:35 |
| mntmn | i was not able to even start wayland-kde on reform, it just freezes | 14:35 |
| mntmn | i use sway as my daily driver. i really like it a lot | 14:36 |
| mntmn | but it's a tiled WM | 14:36 |
| mntmn | someone should make a "classic" floating compositor for wayland | 14:36 |
| devyl | indeed | 14:36 |
| mntmn | without fancy effects. xfce4 / gnome2 style | 14:36 |
| adjtm_ | I have nor used X11 (except xwayland) for a year and a have, I use either sway or weston when I need something light | 14:36 |
| mntmn | maybe i will do that one day ;) | 14:37 |
| devyl | yes... xfce is working on that | 14:37 |
| mntmn | ah if xfce is doing that, great | 14:37 |
| mntmn | i mean all of the xfce4 applications already run natively | 14:37 |
| mntmn | because they're gtk3 | 14:37 |
| Kooda | XFCE on wayland would be great | 14:37 |
| mntmn | i use xfce4-terminal on sway for example | 14:37 |
| adjtm_ | I used xfce on the novena laptop and it worked well, reform is quite faster so it should be fine | 14:38 |
| devyl | hmmm xfce-session likes to install lightdm | 14:38 |
| mntmn | yep i have quickly tried xfce at some point | 14:38 |
| mntmn | devyl: just uninstall lightdm | 14:38 |
| adjtm_ | devyl, you can use whatever logging-manager you want with xfce | 14:38 |
| devyl | yeah... i know but i thought it wouldnt be a good idea on the reform? | 14:40 |
| mntmn | yeah you don't need that | 14:40 |
| adjtm_ | Kooda, I agree, it's sad that lighter desktops like xfce and lxde/lxqt have not focused on wayland some years ago, not it will take much more time to get there | 14:40 |
| Kooda | It’s a lot of additional work yeah | 14:41 |
| adjtm_ | now it will take... | 14:41 |
| mntmn | i probably should ship a xfce4 example with the next reform-system-image, i just ran out of time and it is quite a lot of stuff | 14:41 |
| mntmn | probably a recipe/script would suffice at first | 14:41 |
| Kooda | You can let the community work on that for a bit. Take rests when you can, you already have a lot of work on your hands :) | 14:42 |
| mntmn | Kooda: yeah, i always have the urge to solve all the problems ;) | 14:43 |
| devyl | indeed | 14:43 |
| adjtm_ | mntmn, any plan on the usb keyboard? | 14:43 |
| Kooda | mntmn: I noticed that, I thankful that the software is in such a great shape at shipping time. :) But you can’t solve everyone’s problem. :Þ | 14:43 |
| mntmn | adjtm_: what you mean plan? | 14:43 |
| mntmn | adjtm_: https://shop.mntmn.com/products/mnt-reform-usb-keyboard-standalone | 14:44 |
| devyl | wow... enlightenment_start works out of the box | 14:44 |
| devyl | ^^ no cage needed | 14:44 |
| mntmn | devyl: ah cool!! | 14:44 |
| mntmn | devyl: yeah enlightenment is wayland too | 14:44 |
| adjtm_ | mntmn, ... :O | 14:44 |
| mntmn | adjtm_: spread the word ;) | 14:44 |
| adjtm_ | I didn't see any announcement on mastodon! | 14:45 |
| mntmn | adjtm_: weird! i made one a few weeks ago. maybe i should post a reminder | 14:45 |
| adjtm_ | March 10th... I missed it | 14:47 |
| mntmn | no problem :D i just boosted it again | 14:49 |
| adjtm_ | mntmn, it's hackable, but can it run Crysis? :) | 14:50 |
| devyl | ok first try was fucked up xD the cursor doesnt move after setup on enlightenment/wayland | 14:50 |
| devyl | hardware opengl was not a good idea | 14:51 |
| devyl | lets see with software rendering... | 14:51 |
| - pinoaffe (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (pinoaffepi@gateway/shell/pixie/x-opvhwlxfksxilasq) | 14:51 | |
| devyl | screen stays black :( | 14:52 |
| mntmn | devyl: i'm p. sure i used enlightenment successfully. with hardware accel. | 14:53 |
| devyl | hmmm the ui came up but the mouse didnt move with hw | 14:54 |
| devyl | with sw it stayed black | 14:54 |
| devyl | (after setup screens that worked well) | 14:54 |
| mntmn | ok, no idea atm | 14:54 |
| devyl | no problem | 14:55 |
| adjtm_ | mntmn, right now only polycarbonate version can be preordered, right? | 14:55 |
| mntmn | adjtm_: no??? | 14:56 |
| mntmn | did i do some fuckups? | 14:56 |
| adjtm_ | :), I don't think so, it's my brain that doesn't work today | 14:56 |
| mntmn | ok oof | 14:56 |
| adjtm_ | so translucent is polycarbonate and the rest aluminum... | 14:56 |
| adjtm_ | right? | 14:56 |
| mntmn | i always get a mild panic attack when i think i messed up something in the shop admin | 14:57 |
| mntmn | adjtm_: yes | 14:57 |
| mntmn | the polycarb is lighter | 14:57 |
| mntmn | the aluminum is heavier | 14:57 |
| adjtm_ | which one do you recommend? | 14:57 |
| mntmn | hmmmmm i like both. depends if you want a more weighted one or a more light one | 14:57 |
| adjtm_ | sturdiness? | 14:58 |
| adjtm_ | which one will survive more in the backpack? | 14:58 |
| mntmn | similar, the aluminum can take more beating though i guess | 14:58 |
| mntmn | aluminum | 14:58 |
| mntmn | i mean it can get dents and scratches but otherwise pretty indestructible | 14:59 |
| mntmn | whereas the polycarb could crack | 14:59 |
| devyl | hm... xfce4 doesn't seam to like me too ^^ on the second launch it just displays a white screen | 15:20 |
| devyl | (with cursor) | 15:20 |
| mntmn | devyl: well, you have to detail a bit more what you're doing, or it's hard to follow | 15:31 |
| mntmn | devyl: suggestion: just start an xterm and no window manager first in the script. then start the session manually from this xterm | 15:31 |
| mntmn | devyl: this way you will see log output etc | 15:32 |
| devyl | yeah i know i know :) i will debug it later... for now i will stay with sway x) (und must learn the key combos... read how to change the keymap ...) | 15:41 |
| mntmn | devyl: there is a post regarding the keymap in sway on community.mnt.re | 15:55 |
| mntmn | devyl: https://community.mnt.re/t/qwertz-and-delete-key/115/3 | 15:56 |
| devyl | hm dont know but it says it cant find "symbols/my-layout"? | 16:03 |
| devyl | (yeah i have create the file ~/.xkb/symbols/my-layout) | 16:03 |
| jackhill | I wonder oh phosh would work on reform … presumably it works decently on iMX.8 :) | 16:28 |
| jackhill | s/oh/how/ | 16:28 |
| devyl | i think sway ist a much better option... just because phosh is touch optimized | 16:31 |
| jackhill | ACTION is excited to see a blossoming in the wayland compositor space with Vivarium, Wayfire, river, and dwl. | 16:33 |
| jackhill | devyl: yeah, I just think of them as different things. phosh sounds like "a better GNOME shell", but I haven't had a chance to use it yet. | 16:35 |
| jackhill | https://puri.sm/posts/my-first-week-of-librem-5-convergence/ shows some use of phosh on the big screen :) | 16:37 |
| jackhill | now we just need a MNT phone dock :) | 16:39 |
| devyl | g | 16:39 |
| devyl | i have a librem5 ... phosh works more smoothly then the full gnome shell | 16:39 |
| devyl | it is nice to use with a nexdock for esmaple (like in this post) | 16:39 |
| devyl | but it's still very jung... | 16:40 |
| jackhill | cool, I guess that's all to be expected | 16:43 |
| devyl | * it is nice to use with a nexdock for example (like in this post) | 16:44 |
| devyl | i'm looking forward to the next os release for the librem 5 and the cam driver ^^ | 16:45 |
| reverbdog | adjtm_: i find heavier keyboards are nicer to type on, personally | 16:46 |
| - Neelfyn (QUIT: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) (uid180106@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ompkedigachxrbse) | 17:00 | |
| - specing (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~specing@unaffiliated/specing) | 17:08 | |
| mntmn | if someone tries phosh on reform, please share your experience! | 17:46 |
| + pinoaffe (pinoaffepi@gateway/shell/pixie/x-gpanvyjtyjctpojy) | 18:05 | |
| mntmn | https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/9780 | 18:34 |
| mntmn | https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform/updates/march-2021-production-and-shipping | 18:36 |
| + specing (~specing@unaffiliated/specing) | 18:39 | |
| - odnes (QUIT: Ping timeout: 252 seconds) (~odnes@109-178-131-92.pat.ren.cosmote.net) | 18:50 | |
| Kooda | Oooh, very cool etnaviv patch! | 18:50 |
| + odnes (~odnes@109-178-131-92.pat.ren.cosmote.net) | 18:59 | |
| mntmn | Kooda: yeah looks like some perf boost | 19:07 |
| alex4nder | hmm | 19:13 |
| devyl | mntmn: where can i find the kernel source to add a module to the kernel? i want to try the xpad driver for my elite controller :) | 19:34 |
| mntmn | devyl: all the URLs are documented | 19:34 |
| mntmn | devyl: here is how the kernel is built https://source.mnt.re/reform/reform-system-image/-/blob/main/reform2-imx8mq/mkkernel.sh | 19:35 |
| devyl | yeah i was looking for a deb or something ... | 19:36 |
| mntmn | there's no deb | 19:36 |
| devyl | thanks. *cloning :) | 19:39 |
| - odnes (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~odnes@109-178-131-92.pat.ren.cosmote.net) | 19:47 | |
| + odnes (~odnes@109-178-131-92.pat.ren.cosmote.net) | 19:48 | |
| - terpri_ (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~terpri@2603-6081-2241-0752-96b8-6dff-feb3-87d3.res6.spectrum.com) | 19:55 | |
| + terpri_ (~terpri@2603-6081-2241-0752-96b8-6dff-feb3-87d3.res6.spectrum.com) | 19:55 | |
| devyl | puh... not that easy if one dont know to work with kernel sources... do someone know how to build a /var/modules/... dir? | 20:11 |
| Kooda | make modules IIRC | 20:22 |
| Kooda | and then make modules_install or so | 20:23 |
| - odnes (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~odnes@109-178-131-92.pat.ren.cosmote.net) | 21:17 | |
| + rasmus-mk (~rasmus@c83-253-223-217.bredband.comhem.se) | 21:24 | |
| - rasmus-mk (QUIT: Quit: Konversation terminated!) (~rasmus@c83-253-223-217.bredband.comhem.se) | 22:09 | |
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