2020-08-05.log

+ terpri (~terpri@2606-a000-1127-a177-b4ed-3008-1302-e258.inf6.spectrum.com)00:04
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+ technomancy (~user@170.ip-158-69-211.net)00:57
+ ndufresne (stormer@nat/collabora/x-mskoxdqaszrgmtfo)00:57
+ mntmn (~mntmn@softboy.mntmn.com)00:57
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+ dckc (~DanC@2605:a601:ac60:1000:c56e:c837:64b4:d70c)09:59
lastebilmntmn: um let's see (:   model name      : Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-6100 CPU @ 3.70GHz10:09
lastebilso quite a bit less powerful10:09
lastebilit worked, now I am seeing if I can modify it for devuan (:10:10
lastebil(worked last night but then I slept)10:10
lastebiltheoretically I can set up a build box for this in my data center but this is a home box10:10
lastebil(yes, I am running xen at home, because I can.)10:15
lastebilhmm, is there a reason you used dd with seek 8000 instead of truncate?  (Asking, as I normally don't seek when using dd and when I want sparse, I use truncate)10:30
+ ehmry (~quassel@2a03:3b40:fe:ab::1)10:32
mntmnlastebil: no reason. :)10:34
swiveli'm pretty sure truncate(1) is a relatively recent development, the dd method has been around forever10:36
lastebilI'm actually fairly sure it's the opposite; I remember 25 years ago using truncate.10:50
lastebilfairly sure this was the norm for anyone using solaris, and when I worked for a large US telco, we had many folks who had used solaris since ... well, the first version purchased (:10:51
lastebilalso that telco "may" have had something to do with unix, and we "may" have had some people who wrote some of the utilities on board. However I never worked with those folks.10:51
lastebilnonetheless I'm not sure.  I asked because of habit of using truncate, based on that experience (:10:51
mntmnha! unfortunately never experienced a version of solaris. i did see some sun fire servers in the flesh though, and some tape robot with them. in ~199910:51
lastebilI have some pizzaboxes here (:10:52
lastebiland a copy, boxed, of solaris 10 (:10:52
mntmnnice10:52
lastebilor two.10:52
lastebilanyway messing about with multistrap now (:10:52
mntmnah yeah!10:53
lastebilI dislike the "huge package list" thing, and ... well. TRIED the bit with10:53
lastebilOne alternative is to define your list of packages as multiple groups with packages separated on a functional / dependency basis, e.g. base, Xorg, networking etc. and list each group under 'bootstrap'10:53
lastebilbut this would not parse, so - need an example of that.  For now, just using a ton of packages= lines10:53
mntmnah, that's possible?10:54
mntmnthe huge list is unwieldy yes, even if it's not so many packages yet. categories would surely be nice10:54
swivellastebil: truncate was added to gnu coreutils in 200810:55
swivelso from a linux perspective, no, truncate is new and dd is the traditional way of doing htis10:55
swivelhttps://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/commit/?id=75e0047c4b916393b6be3cb985c4c4d4a2d1a83611:01
lastebilswivel: Linux has always been a bit goofy from the Unix perspective (:11:08
lastebilI'd have to go install a Solaris box to actually check if dd has the seek option on solaris. I suppose I can check the dd manpage for openbsd...11:09
lastebilok I'd better get moving to my eye doctor appointment, leaving this building... will come back and if it works, try to use devuan as the repo (:11:10
lastebilbtw mntmn how are you putting your custom sway portion in, instead of the debian package? maybe it's just that I'm using Beowulf and there IS no sway package, and I build from source - but11:11
lastebilare you actually making a package and sourcing the _local_ package in this multistrap thing?  (if so, I don't see the clause for that.)11:11
lastebil(feel free to answer in the future, I have to go to the eye doctor (:  )11:12
swivelwhat little exposure i had to solaris in the late 90s/early 00s showed me people installing gnu userspaces just to make the systems pleasant to use11:12
lastebilthat happened yes; but then there was the "ok, this installer is written by some Linux goofball who doesn't know that bash is not /bin/sh on anything"11:14
lastebilbut you wanna talk about pain?11:14
lastebilHPUX   (:11:15
+ Valkyria (~Valkyria@85-76-97-109-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)11:23
mntmnlastebil: when building from source, the packages just go to the /usr/local/... prefix and take precedence. that's what this relies on. so my sway is /usr/local/bin/sway11:28
+ terpri_ (~terpri@2607:fb90:cdf:a0f0:605b:7454:c3fe:ad20)11:58
- terpri (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~terpri@2606-a000-1127-a177-b4ed-3008-1302-e258.inf6.spectrum.com)11:59
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- Valkyria (QUIT: Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)) (~Valkyria@85-76-97-109-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)14:13
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+ gcc-addict (~gcc-addic@gateway/tor-sasl/gcc-addict)14:23
lastebilmntmn: cool. (As I will want to build tmux to be the latest version, rather than the version in Beowulf (:  )14:24
mntmn:314:25
erlehmanni actualld told mntmn about the truncate thing some time ago and now i wonder if it has some drawbacks?14:34
erlehmann(does it?)14:34
lastebilI'm not sure. Again, we _used_ to use it.  If there ARE drawbacks, it may be 'sparse file' vs 'actual file' rather than the tool that _makes_ the sparse file.14:59
lastebil- first pass at devuan build14:59
lastebilaaand it's not going to work to use chimaera, which, well, that's not stable anyway (:14:59
erlehmannsparse files are a very good idea15:00
erlehmannbecause that way you can make an image for an 8GB filesystem on an 8GB filesystem15:00
erlehmannas long as it is mostly empty15:00
lastebilyes. they ONLY become an issue when you have a program that does not understand 'holes'15:04
erlehmannlastebil, which would be what?15:05
erlehmannlastebil, i mean it is on a filesystem level15:05
lastebilwhich SHOULDN'T be a problem here.  (I seem to recall "something" with swap space that was a sparse file failing miserably at one time, but I never experienced that myself, so it may just be "idle talk" by someone I picked up)15:05
erlehmannlastebil, so how would a program not understand holes at all?15:05
erlehmannhahaha15:05
erlehmannswap space as sparse file15:05
erlehmannthat is a good joke15:05
erlehmanngood yolk15:05
erlehmanneggs15:05
lastebilyeah, but you can imagine someone trying it (:15:06
erlehmanni wonder what would go wrong there15:06
erlehmanni mean sparseness is a thing handled by the filesystem15:06
mntmnmmap maybe15:29
- dckc (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~DanC@2605:a601:ac60:1000:c56e:c837:64b4:d70c)15:33
+ Valkyria (~Valkyria@85-76-97-109-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)15:41
+ dckc (~DanC@user2.kumc.edu)15:43
mntmnhmno, sparse files can be mmapped.15:53
lastebilwell, the devuan expiriment is not going well, problems with multistrap, and as this is a step I don't actually need before setting up void, I'll drop it for now16:14
lastebilbut before I do the void portion: remapping the keys at the kernel level was possible, yes?  Where was that documented ?16:15
mntmnlastebil: hmm, i'm not sure about how it works on the kernel level. i personally would just change it in the keyboard16:24
mntmnlastebil: but it's probably safer and better to figure out how to do this in software16:24
lastebilah, ok. Thought I remembered you mentioning it being done at kernel level before when I mentioned remapping via xkb or similar16:24
mntmnlastebil: ah, this might be interesting https://jlk.fjfi.cvut.cz/arch/manpages/man/setkeycodes.816:24
lastebilah yes I believe I have used that with alpine; it uses a binary form of key mapping to do things16:25
mntmnthere's also something involving udev16:26
lastebilnot sure I want to involve udev.16:26
mntmnthe other solution is to edit the firmware of the keyboard and reflashing it, but it involves opening the top bezel of the keyboard and, in this version, unscrewing the oled PCB because the reset button for the keyboard is exactly under that.16:26
lastebilhmm, does it use qwk or similar?16:27
mntmnnot yet.16:27
mntmnone second16:27
lastebilright then let's not do that JUST yet. I am familiar with qwk et al for my iris and atreus16:27
mntmnhere's the source and the matrix https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform/src/branch/master/reform2-keyboard-fw/Keyboard.c#L7216:28
mntmnso you just need gcc and avr and edit that and do "make" in that folder. and then sudo ./flash.sh but for that the keyboard needs to be reset via its little button.16:28
mntmnthis is to prevent unauthorized reflashing.16:28
lastebilyep. makes sense.16:29
lastebilhowever I don't really want to disassemble it right now, I'll go for the remapping keys in software method.16:29
mntmnyep.16:29
mntmnvery understandable!16:29
mntmnalso your results would interest me.16:29
lastebilwill let you know when I'm finished.16:29
mntmncool16:32
- Valkyria (QUIT: Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)) (~Valkyria@85-76-97-109-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)16:39
lastebilwell, dumpkeys output on the reform2 is... significantly different from on other machines I have (:17:34
- B[] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~Thunderbi@219-89-228-78-adsl.sparkbb.co.nz)17:35
lastebilhmm. I may actually need to redo the kb firmware to do one thing I had wanted (swap the space and alt keys) in that you have mapped both space keys to produce the same keycode, which actually does make sense, can't think of another way to do it17:50
lastebilunless one was non breaking space or japanese halfspace but yeah we don't really... have those for typing (:17:51
lastebilnot in the west...17:51
lastebilbut I'll possibly just manage to get my thumb to learn the right spot (:17:51
lastebilthink I can fix the others though17:51
lastebilhmm, only one issue with this remapping method; I'm remapping _any_ keyboard at the console level; so this means the usb keyboard I had plugged in suddenly has 'up' on the left shift (:18:02
lastebilof course, 'up' is doing left shift, as I chose to swap those for the reform keyboard (:18:02
technomancyunlabeled keycaps crew represent =D18:21
technomancyI won't say I told you so, but ...18:22
lastebilI actually think I ordered unlabeled , but I don't mind18:22
lastebilbecause the backlighting isn't really that bright and the keycaps having slight amounts of light on them don't hurt (:18:22
technomancyhoming keys > backlight18:23
lastebilhoming keys?18:23
lastebiloh18:23
lastebilno that woudln't help18:23
technomancyhaving your index fingers rest on keycaps that have some kind of nub or indentation on them means you can ensure they're positioned right without looking18:23
lastebilright. that would not help at all.18:23
lastebilok think with your atreus (if you translate my nick from Norwegian you'll know who I am)18:24
lastebilso for that keymap that you put on my model - I needed to replace the left shift with 'left shift if held, return if tapped' (:18:25
lastebilhoming keys don't help that (:18:25
lastebilmntmn: sent you a mail with the loadkeys script I ended up with, rather simple really18:29
technomancyah I see; yeah18:30
lastebilhave not tested with sway; will do that now (:18:30
lastebiltechnomancy: also haven't tested it with the atreus yet (:18:30
lastebilSHOULD work just fine of course, it works with other usb keyboards (:18:30
lastebilright that just fixes the console, I'll have to do some sway remapping too (:18:33
lastebilbut at least now I can type passwords that have shifted characters without as many mistakes (:18:33
lastebil(the actual real issue (:  )18:34
mntmnlastebil: thanks for your mail! i'm thinking to do a docs folder with bits of info like this in the repo, can i include it?18:47
mntmnlastebil: cool that it works btw18:47
lastebilyes. I'll probably put some more documentation together on my sourcehut with various things I do for it, etc.18:47
mntmnlastebil: also while i was just out to go to UPS, loadkeys popped back into my mind, don't know why it didn't occur to me earlier18:48
mntmnlastebil: that's also cool18:48
lastebilbecause it's the sort of thing you forget (:  I was forgetting it also, thinking I needed to use the binary format that loadkeys -b makes18:48
lastebil(which is loaded by busybox... and that's a bit... ugly.)18:48
mntmntechnomancy: you are the only one with homing keycaps btw, hence the confusion18:49
mntmnwe didn't put them on the engraved once18:49
mntmnones18:49
lastebilalso, loadkeys -b doesn't really _work_ on this...18:49
lastebiloh technomancy got one too?  (:18:49
technomancymntmn: ah, yeah makes sense, because if you want to swap to dvorak or colemak then the homing caps would be wrong.18:49
technomancylastebil: hell yeah18:49
mntmnnot sure, but they said they have blank keycaps and there is only one.18:49
technomancywhat!18:49
technomancyonly one order for blank caps? what's the world coming to ...18:50
mntmnyes18:50
mntmnoh wait18:50
mntmnmaybe i'm the one who's confused. i'm talking about beta reforms.18:50
mntmntechnomancy: so probably you don't have your reform _yet_18:50
mntmnfrom the 8 beta units, there was one with blank keys and we put homing keycaps on it.18:51
technomancyaha; I see. yeah I will have to wait longer. it's worth it tho!18:51
lastebilit is. (:18:52
mntmni'm checking now how many blanks there will be...18:52
mntmnalmost 20 if i didn't miscount18:53
+ Albylmannen (Berof@31-208-217-48.cust.bredband2.com)19:12
+ terpri (~terpri@cpe-98-26-15-90.nc.res.rr.com)19:31
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+ terpri (~terpri@2606-a000-1127-83a8-29bb-d4a9-b6ca-cbc6.inf6.spectrum.com)19:38
lastebilmntmn: hmm, was there something where we could not build u-boot to actually output to the display? Was it possible to output to an attached hdmi display?20:20
lastebil(I probably should look more closely at your u-boot setup, but what I would actually like to do is have the uboot support for syslinux style boot, which I have on some of my other arm board things... makes things a lot easier for testing (:  )20:21
mntmnlastebil: hdmi is kind of possible but internal display is currently not possible because we don't have mipi-dsi and SN65DSI86 drivers in uboot20:21
mntmnlastebil: also i would like to get rid of u-boot in favor of linuxboot later, like use only the bare minimum of u-boot and immediately launch a linux pre-kernel which would then kexec into a thing you choose20:22
lastebilyeah. and serial would be "open the board and attach the wires" -which I _could_ do but again, easier if I just can press 1 or 2 etc (:20:22
mntmnyeah, this is a flaw. i'm thinking how we can get serial out of the case without opening it for the next board version, too.20:22
lastebilyeah. I would like that too. it's just, well, I'm testing a void tarball rather than trying to redo the reform-system-image to untar the tarball (:20:22
lastebilyeah really the only easy way would be to have a rubber stopper over some pins that went to rx/tx, so you could attach your usb setup to it20:23
mntmnthe original boundary vendor kernel does activate the hdmi output in u-boot, so i know that's possible. but you would also need to autoload usb and usbkbd or something to make use of  it20:24
lastebilwhich I'm fine with for testing.20:24
mntmnlike: "usb start" and "stdin usbkbd" or something like that20:24
lastebil(a larger uboot isn't that big an issue with the 32 gb card. later, when using emmc/nand, well, that won't be needed, because linuxboot (:20:24
mntmn(not tested by me on reform2, but i did this on reform1)20:24
mntmnlastebil: yeah.20:25
lastebilhmm, my cubietruck I just compiled it in and hit a key... same, actually, for the c64 mini hack I did on Tuesday...20:25
lastebiltho that was over usb. hmm.20:25
mntmni have a fantasy where i would put a linuxboot thing on eMMC and it would show an amiga-like bootscreen waiting for you to insert the boot SD card or choose to boot from SSD...20:25
lastebildoes it have FEL mode at all?20:26
lastebilyes that would be wicked (:20:26
lastebilalternately, it should be Lord Nikon's bootup from Hackers (:20:26
mntmnhaha :D20:26
mntmni quickly googled FEL, so you mean boot via USB yeah? it is possible yes, but i don't remember the dip switch incantation atm20:27
lastebilyeah, FEL mode comes on allwinner.20:27
mntmnyou can also compile an environment into uboot to do tftp boot...20:27
lastebilso for example for hacking the c64 mini, you pull out the red light cable, plug it into the exposed FEL thing on the card, and send data across a USB cable connected to the power thing. It's quite odd, but apparently how allwinner expected people to develop (:20:28
lastebilyeah I may do tftp instead. that may be easier. it may also NOT be because of my network setup (:20:28
mntmnfascinating https://github.com/lentinj/u-boot/blob/master/doc/README.NetConsole20:28
mntmni have never considered that.20:28
mntmnanother thing that could be done is use the keyboard's OLED and UART->LPC->UART->IMX20:30
mntmnthe LPC has a UART connection to the IMX and another UART connection to the keyboard, but i haven't implemented the LPC<-UART->IMX communication yet.20:30
mntmnbut when you press i.e. HYPER-V or HYPER-S, that info comes via LPC<-UART->Keyboard20:31
lastebiloh yes. the oled would work.20:43
lastebilholy crap that netconsole would work fantastic, I wonder if I can get it to run (:20:44
lastebilprobably not today tho. I shall instead just... do modifications to the filesystem and test that way (:20:46
lastebilmntmn: hmm this u-boot setup is significantly different from the ones I've dealt with before (either that I've built, or that I've hacked...) - I don't see a script that has been compiled that it is running, and the only indication I have of what it would actually use for the kernel parameters is a mention of "run distro_bootcmd"20:56
mntmnlastebil: one second20:57
lastebilno problem (:20:57
mntmnlastebil: all the magic is here https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform-boundary-uboot/src/commit/7d4327e9938f6c3f3d016bbf0a89296a0536053c/board/boundary/nitrogen8m_som/nitrogen8m_som.c#L33420:58
mntmn(and in that file in general)20:58
mntmnthis is just a hacky stopgap until mainline u-boot20:58
mntmnalso the indentation in that file is borked, my bad20:58
mntmnand it is like this because i hacked in the ability to boot from SD card (as opposed to emmc-only), but i wrecked the ability to save the environment on the way21:00
lastebilno problem, it just seemed a bit... different, this makes sense tho (:21:03
lastebilnow to review the bootargs part for using syslinux type scripts (:21:04
lastebilhmm, do I even need to do this; as there is no initrd, if I were to just throw a different init at it (rather than the debian init, a void setup with runit as init) THEORETICALLY it just would work?21:11
mntmnyeah, that's what i do to boot from SSD21:16
mntmnlastebil: this is my /sbin/init http://dump.mntmn.com/reform-init.txt21:16
mntmnlike, on my personal system21:16
lastebildanke, that... will definately help. I'll give it a whirl at least once before bed.21:20
mntmnlastebil: one advantage is that this immediately gives you the drivers for the display and usb keyboard etc21:22
lastebilyeah. just thinking how to get them from the build without actually doing the debian parts (:21:29
lastebils/looking/reading the scripts/  (:21:29
mntmnah those modules are not from debian21:39
mntmnthey come from the kernel build21:40
lastebilyes. (:  Was looking for where you copied them over, so I'd just... use that script (:21:54
lastebilbasically, my thought:  Build kernel, build the portions of the userland that are not debian; take void tarball, overlay those portions; boot.21:55
mntmngotcha, but i would rather build on void i think, because you might run into library dependency problems21:57
mntmni mean if you take userland stuff built on debian straight over to void21:57
mntmnlastebil: my suggestion: don't do mkuserland2.sh as part of your build, but copy that script to your (running) void system and build it on device22:00
mntmnlastebil: (or do similar crosscompile chroot stuff)22:00
mntmnkernel modules are built here together with the kernel Image https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform-system-image/src/branch/reform2-redo/reform2-imx8mq/mkkernel.sh#L4122:01
lastebilah very much the case, what with openssl being ressl and similar22:01
lastebilalso I might want to run musl, and I could do that this way too22:01
mntmnyeah and different versions of everything22:01
mntmnkernel modules are copied into the rootfs here https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform-system-image/src/branch/reform2-redo/reform2-imx8mq/mkuserland.sh#L4322:02
mntmn(it's only 3 modules)22:02
mntmnlastebil: and this is the script that loads those modules https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform-system-image/src/branch/reform2-redo/reform2-imx8mq/template-etc/reform-toggle-display.sh22:03
lastebilok. I'll go to sleep and deal with this tommorrow (:  danke22:03
mntmngood night!22:04
lastebil(let's hope the doctor doesn't tell me to not touch a computer for another week tommorrow (:  )22:04
mntmnoh noes :322:04
ehmrylastebil: I would recommend trying void with the stock kernel22:05
ehmryand replace it when you have a void system22:06
ehmryunless you are cross-compiling...22:06
mntmndoes the stock kernel boot?22:06
ehmryI mean the stock MNT kernel from the SD card22:06
mntmnah! :D22:06
mntmnhaha yes22:07
lastebilyes that was the plan - but as mntmn pointed out I'll also need the modules for the display22:13
lastebilso: void rootfs tarball; kernel + modules; then build the rest on the laptop.22:13
mntmnyep, and some runit (?) script to load the modules probably, so you see something22:14
lastebilyes. which you handed me, basically (:22:14
mntmnyeah22:14
lastebilwere I not tired I would just do that; I will sleep and then ... deal with things (:22:14
mntmnthat should do the trick. i did similar with arch at some point, just to see if it would boot22:14
mntmnyeah! sleep is important22:15
lastebilyes. I got hung up thinking that I'd need to do some things with the bootloader (:22:15
lastebiltalk tommorrow22:15
mntmnehmry: i think a little guide "quickest way to run $DISTRO on reform" is in order22:18
mntmn;)22:18
ehmryindeed22:28
- oomono (QUIT: Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) (uid328183@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-brfzcedtmnhhyjgu)22:52

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