| - dustyweb (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea) | 00:33 | |
| - chartreuse (QUIT: Quit: Leaving) (~chartreus@S0106f0f249dfd9c3.cg.shawcable.net) | 00:37 | |
| + chartreuse (~chartreus@S0106f0f249dfd9c3.cg.shawcable.net) | 00:40 | |
| ex-parrot | I built an atreus-like thing last year with the 1st gen "clicky linear" clickbar kailh chocs... not sure if they make them anymore but they're super satisfying to type on if you like linear-ish and very loud switches | 01:14 |
|---|---|---|
| ex-parrot | currently on loan to a friend so I can't really show it off | 01:14 |
| doppler | wait, what :) | 01:49 |
| doppler | how can a switch be linear and clicky at the same time? | 01:49 |
| doppler | is the tactile bump just not very noticeable? | 01:49 |
| ex-parrot | the clickbar kailh choc switches just have a tiny tiny bit of tactility | 01:50 |
| ex-parrot | I'll try find a force curve | 01:50 |
| ex-parrot | https://plot.ly/~haata/566/ | 01:50 |
| ex-parrot | compare to cherry brown for instance | 01:51 |
| ex-parrot | https://plotly.com/~haata/86 | 01:51 |
| ex-parrot | much gentler ramp | 01:51 |
| ex-parrot | and brown isn't even suuuper tactile | 01:51 |
| doppler | mmm yeah | 02:11 |
| doppler | that dropoff's pretty steep though; I imagine you feel that somewhat | 02:12 |
| doppler | but I see what you mean about the ramp-up being almost linear | 02:13 |
| chartreuse | Linear with a click makes me imagine it working like some 90s laptops where it could make a click on the speaker for each keypress | 02:26 |
| - erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.36.147) | 02:33 | |
| + erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.36.147) | 02:34 | |
| doppler | haha | 02:37 |
| doppler | I actually used that feature sometimes | 02:38 |
| doppler | drove people in my office mad | 02:38 |
| doppler | I wonder if that would be disorienting with headphones | 02:38 |
| doppler | I had it set quiet enough that you could only hear it if you were nearby, but still... | 02:39 |
| sknebel | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEBAWhfNEB8 | 02:43 |
| ex-parrot | it's definitely not fully linear but it's very gentle, I can basically not tell with my fingers | 02:44 |
| ex-parrot | that's awesome sknebel | 02:44 |
| chartreuse | Could be a new feature to hack into the Reform :P Nothing stopping someone from doing that | 02:44 |
| doppler | sknebel: love it | 02:50 |
| sknebel | not my hack, sadly :D | 02:51 |
| sknebel | but now I imagine a laptop with an oversized plunger on the side to press for return | 02:51 |
| - erlehmann (QUIT: Quit: Just say no, then the virus can not enter your body without your consent.) (~erlehmann@46.114.36.147) | 03:01 | |
| + B[] (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) | 04:03 | |
| - Jookia (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia) | 05:24 | |
| + Jookia (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia) | 05:24 | |
| + kaleun (~kaleun@2600:1700:6828:40::4e5) | 08:14 | |
| - kaleun (QUIT: Ping timeout: 244 seconds) (~kaleun@2600:1700:6828:40::4e5) | 09:42 | |
| - FSX (QUIT: Quit: WeeChat 2.7) (~frank@61924.nl) | 10:04 | |
| - B[] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) | 13:10 | |
| + JDGJr (~JDGJr@209.131.238.80) | 18:44 | |
| + erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.39.37) | 20:10 | |
| + FUZxxl (~fuz@fuz.su) | 20:15 | |
| FUZxxl | mntmn: wir sprachen uns schon auf Twitter | 20:15 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: ah, about freeBSD! | 20:18 |
| FUZxxl | exactly | 20:19 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: is there a generic arm64 freebsd image (UEFI)? i could try it in qemu-kvm | 20:19 |
| FUZxxl | mntmn: ehm yes, there is: https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/VM-IMAGES/12.1-RELEASE/aarch64/Latest/ | 20:20 |
| FUZxxl | that's a VM image | 20:21 |
| FUZxxl | there's also ISO images with an installer: https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/ISO-IMAGES/12.1/ | 20:21 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: perfect, thanks | 20:22 |
| FUZxxl | thanks for checking | 20:22 |
| - erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.39.37) | 20:22 | |
| + erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.39.37) | 20:24 | |
| FUZxxl | Also, I'm pretty impressed how you have reached almost 70% funding after less than three days. | 20:28 |
| FUZxxl | I'd also like to know if there are any differences in warranty between the various model options | 20:33 |
| FUZxxl | I'm especially interested in whether the kit comes with the same warranty as pre-assembled models. I recall that warrenty (Gewährleistung) needs not be given for kits, and I'm really not sure what the situation is in this regard. | 20:34 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: good question. i'd say we do that on a case-by-case basis. if you put the device together with an average amount of care, and it doesn't work (DOA), you can send it to us and we can determine if there was a production fault. we will test each motherboard before shipping it out, though. but yeah, we will give reasonable warranty for a year. | 20:40 |
| mntmn | if there are obvious signs of damage by the owner, we can only repair it (for a fee) | 20:40 |
| mntmn | or sell a replacement part in the worst case | 20:40 |
| FUZxxl | damage caused by the owner is of course excluded (would not have expected that to be included at this price point) | 20:41 |
| FUZxxl | one year of warranty sounds okay-ish. Will there be any extended warranty options? | 20:42 |
| mntmn | not for the campaign but we could set up something like this later on | 20:43 |
| FUZxxl | thanks. I bought 5 years of warranty for my current laptop (Dell) and I'd really like to have assurance that the next one can be used for at least 3 years or so. But let's see. | 20:44 |
| mntmn | ah, that's interesting. | 20:47 |
| technomancy | for me personally warranty of "this will be supported on at least the next two debian releases" is more appealing than any kind of damage warranty | 20:53 |
| technomancy | ACTION glances at his novena which can't launch X after upgrading to buster | 20:53 |
| FUZxxl | technomancy: that's another thing I'm fearful of, but given the longer release cycles of FreeBSD, it might just be okay if it works at all. | 20:54 |
| - emacsomancer (QUIT: Read error: Connection reset by peer) (~runner@c-174-52-88-123.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | 20:55 | |
| FUZxxl | ARM devices have the reputation of going out of support quickly for a reason | 20:55 |
| + emacsomancer (~runner@c-174-52-88-123.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) | 20:57 | |
| FUZxxl | mntmn: any results from the qemu attempt? | 21:01 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: not yet, but i'm very inexperienced with UEFI | 21:02 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: this can take a few days for me to figure out | 21:02 |
| FUZxxl | mntmn: thanks! It might be possible to boot FreeBSD directly through GRUB in case getting the FreeBSD boot loader to work is too hard. | 21:04 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: oh, i just got it to boot | 21:05 |
| mntmn | but with kvm enabled it doesn't seem to work yet | 21:06 |
| mntmn | maybe i need a newer qemu | 21:06 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: got this far ;) https://twitter.com/mntmn/status/1259562622879440896 | 21:15 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: not sure how to get boot devices hooked up in qemu etc | 21:16 |
| mntmn | my freebsd-fu is weak | 21:16 |
| FUZxxl | how is the main disk attached? | 21:16 |
| FUZxxl | if it's ATA, /dev/ada0 might be correct | 21:18 |
| FUZxxl | for NVMe it would nda0 | 21:20 |
| FUZxxl | mntmn: also try ? to get a list (if that works) | 21:21 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: currently virtio-blk-device | 21:24 |
| FUZxxl | then it should be /dev/vtbd0 | 21:26 |
| FUZxxl | (i.e. /dev/vtbd0s1a including partition and slice) | 21:27 |
| mntmn | filesystem? ufs? | 21:28 |
| mntmn | mounting failed with error 19 | 21:29 |
| FUZxxl | ufs should still be correct. Though that error 19.... does anything come up when you enter ? | 21:29 |
| mntmn | it just waits for a moment for the device and then mountroot gives error 19, i tried with /dev/vtbd0 and /dev/vtbd0s1a | 21:30 |
| FUZxxl | that's weird | 21:30 |
| FUZxxl | I mean, literally enter ? to get a device list | 21:31 |
| mntmn | yeah, there's nothing there. i'm trying something else | 21:33 |
| FUZxxl | thanks. Perhaps the bootloader is not configured to support virtio | 21:33 |
| FUZxxl | super weird | 21:34 |
| mntmn | ah, found the error | 21:34 |
| mntmn | the qemu recipe has a little mistake, it says virtio-blk-device, but it has to be virtio-blk | 21:35 |
| mntmn | this recipe https://wiki.freebsd.org/arm64/QEMU | 21:35 |
| mntmn | maybe it's a bit older | 21:36 |
| FUZxxl | let me see if it works on my machine | 21:37 |
| mntmn | removing the -device suffixes from the virtio parameters fixed it for me | 21:37 |
| mntmn | so i was able to log in, but i would ideally want kvm to work :) | 21:38 |
| FUZxxl | it does work on my machine. | 21:38 |
| mntmn | which qemu version? | 21:39 |
| FUZxxl | QEMU emulator version 4.1.1 | 21:39 |
| FUZxxl | the one shipped by FreeBSD | 21:39 |
| mntmn | mine is 4.2.0 | 21:39 |
| FUZxxl | maybe the EFI bios is different | 21:41 |
| FUZxxl | I use a QEMU_EFI.fd with SHA1 checksum 497e97c22eb2f53eb41fa3e53bfdcc901b6ae6aa | 21:41 |
| mntmn | well, anyway it works, just my KVM is still broken (i think) | 21:48 |
| - JDGJr (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~JDGJr@209.131.238.80) | 21:48 | |
| FUZxxl | if it boots in QEMU, what does that say about support? | 21:49 |
| - la_mettrie (PART: "WeeChat 2.2") (~rimrunner@2a01:4f9:c010:3051::1) | 21:51 | |
| FUZxxl | but thanks a lot for trying it out! | 21:52 |
| + embden (~embden@mue-88-130-57-190.dsl.tropolys.de) | 22:07 | |
| + dustyweb (~user@fsf/member/paroneayea) | 22:10 | |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: i got it to work! | 22:10 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM64/QEMU <- followed the pflash stuff from here. so it was an UEFI image problem indeed, it seems. | 22:10 |
| dustyweb | mntmn: we are thinking we will order the prebuilt reform first, see if we like and are happy with it, but then after that might order a kit so that both myself and my partner have one... but that presumes that you're hoping to keep selling kits after the campaign if it's successful | 22:10 |
| dustyweb | I assume that's probably true? | 22:10 |
| mntmn | dustyweb: yes, absolutely | 22:11 |
| dustyweb | mntmn: awesome | 22:11 |
| dustyweb | <3 | 22:11 |
| mntmn | :) | 22:11 |
| dustyweb | btw with the "debian on SD card" | 22:12 |
| dustyweb | why on the SD card and not on the SSD? | 22:12 |
| dustyweb | is it possible only to boot from SD for now? | 22:12 |
| dustyweb | or is it "debian installer on sd card"? | 22:12 |
| mntmn | dustyweb: more like, installer, yes. i use debian on the SSD. | 22:14 |
| mntmn | dustyweb: but this is because you also have the option to order without SSD and it works from SD then ;) | 22:14 |
| FUZxxl | mntmn: that sounds cool! Always good to see that it comes up out of the box. Now support for the peripherals is of course a whole new can of worms. | 22:15 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: yes, but virtualization can help with that... it can use the host's Xserver i guess. also need to look into virgl | 22:16 |
| mntmn | pretty nice to have a BSD in the toolbox though, i must say | 22:17 |
| FUZxxl | mntmn: sure! Was hoping to run it natively though. | 22:17 |
| dustyweb | mntmn: ah cool :) | 22:17 |
| mntmn | FUZxxl: yeah, probably not in the short term | 22:18 |
| FUZxxl | Yeah. Will think about whether I'm buying one. | 22:19 |
| chartreuse | I'm sure someone will get it working once they get their laptop and want to run a BSD | 22:20 |
| FUZxxl | That's what I hope for. Apparently that strategy did work out for Novena | 22:21 |
| chartreuse | Well so far there's 61 claimed laptops, Hopefully one of them is really into BSD. (I do like BSD but I don't think I'm that far into it yet) | 22:25 |
| FUZxxl | I suppose most of the bits and pieces are already supported. The only deal breaker would be if there was no support for the graphics, everything else is probably reasonably easy to port from Linux. | 22:28 |
| mntmn | i mean, all the sources for the gfx drivers are there, but someone comfortable with the freebsd gfx subsystem would need to port them | 22:33 |
| chartreuse | GPLv3 would probably be the issue if it was to be mainlined into BSD | 22:34 |
| mntmn | another option could be genode as a hypervisor | 22:34 |
| FUZxxl | yeah. I am not at all familiar. | 22:35 |
| mntmn | genode will be supported first-class on reform | 22:35 |
| mntmn | it's kind of a lego-like OS construction kit | 22:35 |
| mntmn | able to run multiple OS and their components in a virtualized/isolated hierarchy | 22:35 |
| FUZxxl | I'm really not familiar with genode. Might be a good reading. | 22:37 |
| doppler | mntmn: wow, that's good to hear. I almost never run into people who have even heard of it, let alone have interest in supporting it. | 22:43 |
| mntmn | doppler: genode labs has acquired a reform beta device | 22:48 |
| doppler | excellent. | 22:48 |
| + mntmn_ (~mntmn@softboy.mntmn.com) | 22:49 | |
| ex-parrot | how had I never heard of genode... | 23:27 |
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