| - Jookia (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia) | 00:58 | |
| + Jookia (~Jookia@gateway/tor-sasl/jookia) | 00:58 | |
| + adjtm (~adjtm@25.red-79-154-251.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) | 01:08 | |
| - adjtm_ (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~adjtm@22.red-79-154-250.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) | 01:09 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@205.185.99.26) | 02:24 | |
| bkeys | mntmn: Now that we are in the middle of the month, any clue if the campaign page is still going to be going on this month? | 02:28 |
|---|---|---|
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 240 seconds) (~Thunderbi@205.185.99.26) | 04:33 | |
| + bkeys (~Thunderbi@205.185.99.27) | 05:02 | |
| - B[] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 260 seconds) (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) | 06:06 | |
| + bkeys1 (~Thunderbi@205.185.99.26) | 09:01 | |
| - bkeys (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~Thunderbi@205.185.99.27) | 09:03 | |
| * bkeys1 -> bkeys | 09:03 | |
| mntmn | bkeys: don’t know, it depends if we can make the video under the current circumstances | 09:03 |
| + B[] (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) | 12:10 | |
| - erlehmann (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.101) | 12:12 | |
| + erlehmann (~erlehmann@46.114.33.101) | 12:12 | |
| - B[] (QUIT: Ping timeout: 246 seconds) (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) | 12:27 | |
| + B[] (~Thunderbi@125-239-58-43-fibre.sparkbb.co.nz) | 12:29 | |
| + adjtm_ (~adjtm@6.red-83-34-7.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) | 13:58 | |
| - adjtm (QUIT: Ping timeout: 256 seconds) (~adjtm@25.red-79-154-251.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) | 14:00 | |
| + mietek (sid134071@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jlaiwvfvyfflczmz) | 16:46 | |
| mietek | Hi. | 16:46 |
| + srk (sorki@fedora/sorki) | 16:48 | |
| mntmn | hi mietek | 16:48 |
| mietek | Do you have a rough idea for the price? | 16:50 |
| mntmn | yeah | 16:51 |
| mntmn | barebones motherboard/sbc version: $550. reform laptop diy kit (includes everything, but you have to screw it together, like IKEA): $999 | 16:52 |
| mntmn | fully assembled incl 256 gb NVMe, printed handbook: $1300 | 16:52 |
| mntmn | reform max (1tb nvme, wifi, handmade soft shell): $1500 | 16:52 |
| mntmn | this is the pricing structure i have in mind at the moment, but it can still change. | 16:53 |
| mietek | Soft shell -- case? | 16:53 |
| mntmn | yeah | 16:53 |
| mietek | Sounds good, thanks. | 16:53 |
| mntmn | mietek: which option would you choose? ;) | 16:54 |
| mietek | The ideal option for me is none of the above. | 16:57 |
| mietek | I assume you can get better prices on components than retail. | 16:58 |
| mietek | I’m happy to do self-assembly. | 16:58 |
| mietek | I don’t care for printed handbooks. | 16:58 |
| mietek | I assume it will be difficult to find a fitting case elsewhere. | 16:58 |
| mietek | Therefore, the only real choice is the size of the SSD. | 16:58 |
| mietek | DIY kit + some size of NVMe + wifi + case. | 16:59 |
| mietek | 512GB has plenty of space for dual-booting macOS and Win10. | 16:59 |
| mietek | So, it seems that 256GB should be plenty here, but I don’t know. | 16:59 |
| mietek | Who would want a Reform and not DIY? | 17:01 |
| mntmn | DIY kit includes the case | 17:04 |
| mietek | By case, I meant the soft shell. | 17:05 |
| mntmn | and i don't think i will get a much better price on NVMe SSDs than you would get on amazon or so | 17:05 |
| mietek | Still, I’d rather pay you than Amazon. | 17:05 |
| mntmn | ok, but i won't earn anything on that. there's no money in reselling individual components | 17:06 |
| mietek | I’m not here to tell you what to do, but you could. | 17:06 |
| mietek | There is value in not having to pick things. | 17:06 |
| mntmn | ok, got it | 17:06 |
| mntmn | so you would prefer a more maxed-out DIY version | 17:07 |
| mntmn | that's actually a good idea | 17:07 |
| mietek | Yes, I mean, I think anyone excited by the Reform is probably going to be deep into the DIY mindset, no? | 17:07 |
| mietek | I’m curious if you have other people in mind. | 17:07 |
| mntmn | some probably just want to plug and play | 17:08 |
| mntmn | like, in the first beta round we sold all of the devices fully assembled | 17:08 |
| mntmn | in this second beta round, i think only 1 person asked to assemble the device themselves | 17:08 |
| mietek | And was there a choice of kit vs fully-assembled, with the same spec? | 17:08 |
| mntmn | no, but nobody asked to self assemble | 17:08 |
| mntmn | but on the other hand, reform 2 is much easier to self assemble | 17:09 |
| mietek | Maybe it did not occur to ask. | 17:09 |
| mntmn | reform 1 was very tricky | 17:09 |
| mntmn | yes, possible | 17:09 |
| mietek | I see. | 17:09 |
| mietek | Is there any progress with the Synopsys DDR4 PHY problem? | 17:11 |
| mntmn | nope | 17:11 |
| mietek | Blocked, or no time? | 17:12 |
| mntmn | no time | 17:12 |
| mntmn | no resources atm | 17:12 |
| mntmn | we're working really really hard on getting the device + campaign done | 17:12 |
| mietek | I think 1TB is a lot of storage. It could make sense for a primary and sole computing device. | 17:18 |
| mietek | ACTION looks around | 17:18 |
| mietek | There is… more than one computing device in my location. | 17:19 |
| mietek | Maybe I’m not up to speed on NVMe costs, but I thought it may be the most expensive component. | 17:20 |
| mntmn | same, i have computers with all kinds of bit widths | 17:20 |
| mntmn | mietek: absolutely not. | 17:20 |
| mietek | Display? | 17:20 |
| mntmn | mietek: also not at all. | 17:20 |
| mietek | huh. CPU? | 17:20 |
| mntmn | mietek: the most expensive parts are the motherboard + cpu + memory, and the aluminum milled case parts. | 17:20 |
| mntmn | mietek: also the keyboard is around 2x as expensive as the display | 17:21 |
| mntmn | (because it's mechanical) | 17:21 |
| mietek | Okay. This just goes to show how little I know. | 17:21 |
| mietek | Thanks. | 17:21 |
| mntmn | well, i'm not sure if i had guessed it correctly before starting this project... | 17:21 |
| mietek | I was going to suggest 256GB / 512GB / 1TB options, but maybe it doesn’t make sense, then. | 17:21 |
| mntmn | no, they don't make a huge difference. | 17:22 |
| mietek | However, maybe it still does, if you want to do marketing. | 17:22 |
| mntmn | if it was RAM then yes :D | 17:22 |
| mntmn | i don't want too many options. it would confuse people | 17:22 |
| mntmn | there's a thing called option fatigue or something like that | 17:22 |
| mietek | I absolutely agree. | 17:23 |
| mietek | But, storage size is an easily understood differentiator. | 17:23 |
| mietek | https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/13-inch has 4 options that differ in CPU speed and storage size. | 17:23 |
| mntmn | yeah, common for phones i guess | 17:23 |
| mntmn | i haven't bought a laptop since 2013 ;) | 17:24 |
| mietek | I understand marketing is a dirty word. | 17:25 |
| mntmn | mietek: well, i have a MA in communications ;) | 17:25 |
| mntmn | but yeah. i would like to keep this simple | 17:26 |
| mietek | I really like the minimal industrial aesthetics of the Reform. | 17:29 |
| mntmn | mietek: thanks, that's really important for me | 17:30 |
| mietek | Did you have any plans for FPGA integration a la Novena? | 17:31 |
| mietek | I really like that the trackball is centered! | 17:33 |
| mietek | I hope it is, at least. | 17:33 |
| mietek | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_100#/media/File:Powerbook_100_pose.jpg | 17:34 |
| mietek | This was a nice design. | 17:34 |
| mietek | Do you see the possibility of replacing the panel with a double-density one? | 17:35 |
| srk | mietek: hm, with something like ecp5 you could do PciE card instead of putting FPGA on board directly | 17:36 |
| mietek | srk: I found a blog post that does say "mPCIe slot: The other PCIe controller drives an mPCIe connector that you can use for expansions like a WiFi card, an embedded graphics card or an FPGA board, for example." | 17:36 |
| mietek | Just wondering if there are concrete examples of FPGA boards working in such a configuration. | 17:37 |
| srk | novena has spartan 6 and I would rather use ice40 or ecp5 due to toolchain (you can't even run xilinx ise on arm :)) | 17:37 |
| mietek | And, Xilinx ISE is dead and terrible. | 17:37 |
| srk | ecp5 PciE with open toolchain is still in progress probably | 17:37 |
| srk | mietek: this, it can get dated easily :D | 17:38 |
| mntmn | mietek: the trackball is centered, yes | 18:04 |
| mietek | \o/ | 18:05 |
| mntmn | https://www.crowdsupply.com/rhs-research/nitefury | 18:06 |
| mntmn | this can probably be used in the M.2 slot | 18:06 |
| mietek | Nice. | 18:07 |
| mietek | mntmn: I have been using high-resolution displays for at least 5 years; going back to regular displays is painful. | 18:07 |
| mietek | A double-density panel would be a really cool differentiator for the high-end model. | 18:08 |
| mntmn | this could probably be used in mPCIe slot https://www.crowdsupply.com/fairwaves/xtrx | 18:09 |
| mietek | I understand if having it as an option would make things too difficult for you at this stage. | 18:09 |
| mntmn | also has an artix-7 | 18:09 |
| mntmn | mietek: i think 1920x1080 at 12.5" is fine | 18:09 |
| mntmn | my other laptop is a retina mbp @ 13" and i don't miss that | 18:10 |
| mntmn | it really depends on what your use cases are i guess | 18:10 |
| mietek | It’s a personal preference. | 18:10 |
| mntmn | yeah | 18:10 |
| mietek | I also have a retina MBP 13". | 18:10 |
| mietek | And retina 4K displays. | 18:10 |
| mietek | So, I’m curious if it would be technically possible to use a retina panel in the Reform. | 18:11 |
| mntmn | i think it's not possible. | 18:11 |
| mntmn | except if you desolder the hdmi and use some wiring hack and proprietary drivers to use the imx8m's native DP to adapt it to some 4k dp panel | 18:12 |
| mntmn | so as a huge, ugly hack it would maybe be possible. and it won't be fast. | 18:12 |
| mntmn | also you'd probably need to design and mill a different screen enclosure because all of these panels don't have standard sizes/ form factors | 18:13 |
| mietek | Does the HDMI not support 4K @ 60Hz? | 18:14 |
| mntmn | i haven't even tried 4k on the hdmi output yet | 18:14 |
| mntmn | i'm currently not using the hdmi | 18:14 |
| mntmn | because it requires a blob + there are no mainline drivers for it yet | 18:14 |
| mietek | I know my Dell 4K displays don’t support 4K @ 60Hz when using the HDMI input. | 18:14 |
| mietek | Which is really annoying. | 18:14 |
| mntmn | theoretically it can do 4k | 18:14 |
| mietek | 4K @ 30Hz is good enough for text-based UI, I guess… | 18:15 |
| mntmn | there's also a displayport mode using the same pins, it wasn't documented at design time though. | 18:15 |
| mntmn | maybe there can be a hdmi-dp dongle in the future | 18:15 |
| mntmn | there are also some mPCIe graphics solutions that are interesting maybe. | 18:16 |
| mietek | The built-in display may be a show-stopper for me; I don’t know. I’ll think about it. | 18:16 |
| mietek | Thanks for your attention. | 18:16 |
| mntmn | ok, no problem | 18:17 |
| mntmn | there will be no more spec changes at this point ;) | 18:17 |
| mietek | Right. | 18:17 |
| - erlehmann (QUIT: Disconnected by services) (~erlehmann@46.114.33.101) | 21:48 | |
| + erlehmann_ (~erlehmann@46.114.38.43) | 21:48 | |
| Jookia | mntmn: bare board version? novena-style? ;) | 22:07 |
| - jboy (QUIT: Remote host closed the connection) (~jboy@unaffiliated/jboy) | 22:23 | |
| mntmn | Jookia: yeah | 22:47 |
| khm | I'm so stoked about a laptop with a fully-functional pointing device | 22:54 |
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